Silver Foil

Sword typology and Edge Weapons forms of the Chinese Empire and related cultures with an emphasis on their relationship to Swordsmanship.

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B.Ko
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Silver Foil

Post by B.Ko » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:42 pm

I have an antique saber with traces of silver foil on the fittings (hilt and scabbard). How did they apply the silver to make it 'stick'?

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Peter Dekker
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Post by Peter Dekker » Sat Aug 04, 2007 6:14 am

If you are talking about foil, I think you mean damascening, a once widespread technique that largely got lost.

With this technique a grid of very small lines was made on the surface and the silver was hammered on, sticking between it. When wearing off you often see the grid reappearing.

-Peter
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Willing is not enough, we must do.


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Philip Tom
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overlay vs inlay

Post by Philip Tom » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:51 am

The decorative technique on Ben's saber fittings was widespread in India and the Near East, where it is commonly identified by the Persian term "koftgari". Both gold and silver were used for the overlay metals. As Peter stated, the surface is first crosshatched with a graving tool, rasing minute ridges in the iron surface. The precious metal, in wire or foil form, is hammered into the ridges, and is then burnished or rubbed down with smooth-surfaced tools made of steel or hardstones. The surface is then chemically oxidized so that the iron darkens, leaving the silver or gold to shine brightly in contrast.

The Moors brought this style of decoration to Spain, where it is still practiced. It is believed that this method of ornamentation reached China, probably during the medieval dynasties, as a result of trade with the Near East. It was also used in Korea and, to a limited degree, in Japan for the ornamenation of sword fittings and other objects. In Japanese, the process is called "nunome".

Because of the tendency of iron and silver to repel each other on a molecular level, overlay with silver is somewhat less durable. The Chinese tended to cover some fittings with a solid sheet of precious-metal foil with this technique. in the case of silver, there is a tendency for the silver to "bubble" or blister when corrosion starts on the underlying iron, after centuries have passed. (you find this sort of deterioration on nickel-plated surfaces on 19th cent. European and American firearms as well)

The classic method of ornamenting base metals with precious metals, utilized in ancient China, was inlay. The ground was cut with grooves which took the exact form of the finished design. The grooves were slightly undercut at the bottoms (so that the surface of the metal slightly overhung the "lips" of the recesses), and the silver or gold was then hammered in and polished off flush with the surface. This method is more durable than onlay since the precious metal sits below the surface.
Phil

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Re: overlay vs inlay

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Fri Aug 17, 2007 9:02 am

Philip Tom wrote:The decorative technique ... commonly identified by the Persian term "koftgari" ... In Japanese, the process is called "nunome"...
Phil- I've never heard a Chinese term for this technique, do you know what the characters are for the Japanese nunome? I think it likely it is the same in Chinese. If we have the character, I could check it with some sources/smiths, in China.

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terminology

Post by Philip Tom » Fri Aug 17, 2007 11:48 am

I've been looking for the Chinese term myself. Have you thought of asking Big Bird? The technique was used in China for other things besides arms decoration -- locks and other iron objects were also occasionally embellished with this technique.
Phil

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Peter Dekker
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Post by Peter Dekker » Sat Aug 18, 2007 3:20 pm

Hi,

The character used for damascening in the Huangchao Liqi Tushi is "wan", I'm not exactly sure which tone but I think it was the third.

It appears among others in the description of the qiguan peidao on page 702 in the part where they describe the guard: "wan jin": golden damascening.

The traditional character: ?

-Peter
Knowing is not enough, we must apply.
Willing is not enough, we must do.


-Bruce Lee

http://www.mandarinmansion.com
Antique Chinese Arms & Functional reproductions

http://www.manchuarchery.org
Fe Doro - Manchu Archery

Philip Tom
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mystery term

Post by Philip Tom » Sat Aug 18, 2007 4:49 pm

Peter,
I checked my copy of the HCLQTS, made from a microfilm of an original in the British Library. Odd that there is no "qiguan" peidao in this edition, only a "chiguan" (officers) peidao. Be that as it may, I don't think that the character you cite refers to damascening.

I've tracked the original (traditional) form down in Mathew's Chinese-English Dictionary, a standard reference for the literary idiom. The frustrating thing is that the version written in the HCLQTS is a non-standard form. Even more confusing, there are 3 variations in Mathews, all have the same "metal" radical on the left and similar stroke count. The character reads not "wan", but rather "jian [first tone] which means "to engrave or carve, as with a block used for printing". The Mathews entry is # 863, page 120. So it would appear that the description of the saber specifies a guard which is embellished with gold, but engraved.

Although the overlay process involves texturing the surface with gravers prior to application of the gold or silver, I don't think that the character "jian" refers to this process since it implies that a specific design is being created via the cutting procedure.
Phil

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Peter Dekker
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Post by Peter Dekker » Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:58 pm

Hi,

In this case, I am not sure whether we can literally go by the dictionaries but need to go from context and what we have seen on antiques as language changed a lot over time.

I've encountered a number of oddly described words in the HCLQTS, one being "zha" that according to all my dictionaries means something like: "pieces of bamboo used to write on, books, orders" etc. In texts from Qi Jiguang's archery manual to the HCLQTS however, it seems to stand for a type of lamellar armor that some arrows could penetrate. Another word that now stands for nobleman is used to refer to an archery target in the 18th century, and more of this.

Unfortunately I'm all packed now and much of my stuff is already shipped back to Holland so I can't check my dictionary on the character I thought was "wan".

-Peter
Knowing is not enough, we must apply.
Willing is not enough, we must do.


-Bruce Lee

http://www.mandarinmansion.com
Antique Chinese Arms & Functional reproductions

http://www.manchuarchery.org
Fe Doro - Manchu Archery

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