Pointers for play?

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J HepworthYoung
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Pointers for play?

Post by J HepworthYoung » Thu Jul 09, 2009 6:15 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Na7sLik5njM

This video shows some playing around, not by the numbers apparently but not that radical for taiji either.

What are your thoughts on it?
Crappy form?
Lack of depth on stance?
Moving too fast?
Arms leading movements and not enough initiation by the dantien?
Feel free to offer pointers.
Have you seen worse?

Nik
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Re: Pointers for play?

Post by Nik » Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:04 am

I don't spot that big issues, some minor asynchronities on moving, but nothing that doesn't iron itself out from simply doing that over a much longer time. To impact the internal strength development, it's a good idea though to start doing this much slower at first, until you always get that distinctive tingling in the body when doing it, and it keeps there also when going a bit faster.

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Re: Pointers for play?

Post by J HepworthYoung » Mon Jul 13, 2009 8:11 am

Tingling?

I have never had that happen.
What is that about?

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Re: Pointers for play?

Post by Nik » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:06 am

That is a typical reaction to people doing _any_ kind of _very_ slow moving work, it's just a feeling of heat, mechanical tingling (flow), hairs rising, etc. With no relation to Taiji, it's a spontaneous body reaction. This effect is responsible for some changes on the long run, and a good indicator of having got "the foot in the doorstep". If it does not occur, just do your regular practice way slower, until it does. There are some effects coming later, but don't worry, you will notice if they do.

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Re: Pointers for play?

Post by J HepworthYoung » Tue Jul 14, 2009 10:26 am

Interesting that I have not found such a feeling in qigong or slow form movement.
However it is too much of a preconception for me to hold onto in terms of expectation.

If I encounter it then neat, but I cannot seek it, because to seek a sensation can result in psychosomatic results.

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Re: Pointers for play?

Post by Nik » Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:59 pm

Yes, it is of no help to "create" that feeling. It even shows up from alone when I tell my colleague at work who never did anything CMA-related to just raise and lower his arms _extremely_ slow. However, there may be conditions where the body has habits, tensions, etc. where it takes some time to show up, especially when you don't spend some time on doing it that slow. Half an hour of daily practice of virtually any short form, movement etc. as slow as ultimately possible (it may take a minute to stretch out the arm, or raise them to shoulder height), without any thought, concentration etc. should do the trick, over some weeks.

Some people I know had problems due to wrong practices, intentionally told to them by their chinese "teachers", for example doing forms with strong intentional tension. Others were completely overdoing that "searching for baaad tensions", "relaxing" their muscles into complete dysfunction, kind of self-hypnotizing the strength out of the muscle, "because IMAs only use the strength of the opponent". So many ways of crippling the own body with wrong recipes off the bookshelf.

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Re: Pointers for play?

Post by J HepworthYoung » Tue Jul 14, 2009 9:22 pm

it takes too long (2 minutes or so) to complete one cycle of sparrows tail moving slow to share with video for pointers in my experience.

In my first year of form training I moved very slow and did stance training for 16 minutes nearly every day. I enjoy very slow motion, but flowing is important to me, too slow and the moves can become incremental, a very common flaw.

I am in my third year of study and am not too concerned with the far out aspects of taiji so much as many people.
My favorite things are stance training and push hands.

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Re: Pointers for play?

Post by Nik » Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:57 am

The extremely slow moving mode is simply a bodily method to get the body remembering certain features, which lead to restructuring and that well known "weird" feelings. Once the body has "remembered", there is no need to go that slowly, you can use the "normal slow" mode used by most practitioners. But when that "odd" feelings never show up, the body obviously needs more stimulation. 15 minutes daily of that extremely slow moving should be enough. That is by the way also the method used in Shaolin in old times (pre-1928) to generate internal strength. Albeit, they did it for hours, according to the lately passed former shaolin monk Han Lei. His student wrote that you could barely see him moving at all, when he was explaining it ("THIS is slow"). My personal guess is that the typical "Taiji slow" of today is an outcome of teachers not having the time to wait for their students complete a section of a form in that very slow mode, so they used one that allows going through within the teaching time. Ma Jiangbao for example does the form much slower than the usual teachers, when practicing for himself.

You might have to experiment which kind of slow gives you the best feedback, i.e. "something" happening in the body. Maybe some are more sensitive to extremely slow, while others benefit more from "slow but not in extreme". Say, this is the usual mode: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGEPUCSeNjg
If that doesn't give that body feelings, try half, and 1/4 of that. Otherwise, just forget about it and wait, there is never a need to "create" something that just doesn't come.

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Re: Pointers for play?

Post by J HepworthYoung » Wed Jul 15, 2009 10:15 am

Thanks for the pointers!
I will put them to work for me.

I had some nerve tingling before, but as my body became conditioned it went away.
But I don't think this is the same as what you talk about.

I can make my palms feel hot very easily with qigong, but I think this is just the result of increased circulation, not the same thing as the feelings of heat I read about.

I like to meditate until I feel like I am floating and have waves of nearly orgasmic euphoria coursing through my body, but I have never had that happen with taiji, just kneeling and sitting meditation.

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