Interesting push-hands video...

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Roland Tepp
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Interesting push-hands video...

Post by Roland Tepp » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:36 am

Hello,

I just saw a pretty interesting Tuishou video on Youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUJ_VKiz ... re=related

What do You guys think...
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Re: Interesting push-hands video...

Post by iglazer » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:04 pm

On one hand, the idea of adding throwing to restricted-step push hands sounds like a lot of fun. But that being said, what ever technique this video claims to show, it certainly isn't good taiji. It isn't even bad taiji. Looks like a combination of judo and a very elaborate hand-shake. :wink:

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Re: Interesting push-hands video...

Post by Psi Man » Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:42 pm

iglazer wrote:On one hand, the idea of adding throwing to restricted-step push hands sounds like a lot of fun. But that being said, what ever technique this video claims to show, it certainly isn't good taiji. It isn't even bad taiji. Looks like a combination of judo and a very elaborate hand-shake. :wink:
That is sort of the impression I had myself.

Another interesting video which demonstrates some expanded push-hands/tuishou training methods can be found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP5IzhZUfaY, starting around the 5 minute mark.

These guys are training moving step tuishou and sanshou, and implementing shuijiao-type takedowns. It looks like a pretty cool series of drills, and I sometimes wonder if I don't practice taking people to the ground enough (though it should be noted that they're doing this with pads on the ground!).

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Re: Interesting push-hands video...

Post by J HepworthYoung » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:27 pm

It reminds me of how if our motivation in push hands is competitive we can lose track of what we can learn from it outside of a contest. Not that competitive push hands is bad, it just seems at odds sometimes with push hands for training.

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Re: Interesting push-hands video...

Post by Roland Tepp » Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:30 pm

Well, not to be controversial, but I actually thought this was pretty good as push-hands go.

Indeed, the first time I saw this video, I found myself also wandering if that is push-hands or even taiji, but then I looked at it some more and found that every technique the guy in the white shirt performed was clean and perfect.

After the first throw the guy in blue shirt went berserk but the guy in white stayed calm, picked him up and threw down again...
.. Notice how the guy in white was always listening - at no point did he use more force than necessary.

Very good use of listening was about 1:55 into the movie where guy in white shirt let the guy in red shirt lean on his arm and then just simply used the dead weight of the opponent against him. After that there were 2 very nice shoulder strikes.

Another really nice pulldown was at 6 minutes into the clip, again followed by a nice powerful shoulder thrike that sent his opponent flying.

At no point did I see the guy in the white shirt overextend or collapse. He was always calm, listening to his duifangs, had really good rooting which he used actively not just bracing himself against an aggressive opponent.

Granted, these were quite an unorthodox techniques as push-hands goes, but I personally think there is a lots of good material to learn from...

Instead of looking at the matches and saying "pfaah! this is not good taiji!", look at it and ask yourselves - how would you counter every technique in this video? Why they were so easily defeated?

PS - the last match was specially interesting as both of the opponents were obviously from the same wrestling school... Still - the match did not deteriorate into the wrestling match...
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Re: Interesting push-hands video...

Post by iglazer » Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:08 pm

You're not being controversial at all - asking us to look at this in a different way is by no means controversial.

I took more time and watch this again... I definitely saw it in a different light. One thing I did notice this time is that this guy displayed great martial spirit - he always helped his duifangs off the floor after they got leveled. Definitely great character.

I'll agree that this guy's listening skills are very good. His shoulder strike directly follows from good listening. Notice how he unloads the shoulder strike just as he duifang's are moving slightly backwards to reset themselves? Good listening there.

Most of the duifang leaned on him heavily, which was definitely one of the causes of their defeat.

All in all, this was worth a re-watch. Thanks Roland for pushing me to do so.

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Re: Interesting push-hands video...

Post by Robert Bemoras » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:26 pm

Just a thought from a Denver outsider.....that was not internal martial arts.

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Re: Interesting push-hands video...

Post by Nik » Tue May 26, 2009 7:43 am

The guy with the white top obviously comes from Shuaijiao. The other guys level of skill or jin did not hold up. It's not like anyone is on the level of the top players, so why bother. It's a hobby, nothing more, nothing less.

BTW, this was a tournament, not some exhibition. I have seen much worse in those.

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