Sparrow take down reply

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J HepworthYoung
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Sparrow take down reply

Post by J HepworthYoung » Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:04 pm

I am not allowed to post in the Michuan area, but had a comment or two.

I study a great deal in the academic sense, I put in about 3 hours reading for every hour of technical practice. I study movement in general but martial arts in particular.

Some things to note: the sparrows tail takedown laoshi shows looks a lot like an Aikido takedown, though different. the founder of aikido was certified in more than one ninja school, several ninja schools trace their roots to a taoist who was said to have fled china. While the ninja training methods show a strong tibetan influence, and consequentially some aikido training methods reflect this I find it interesting that according to the tales taiji is very daoist, and the techniques of aikido rely upon some movement principals, even techniques that are very congruent with taiji. I almost think the aikido founder had a revelation that allowed him to understand principals that apply to all martial arts.

anyway i see this as not a coincidence, but a common ancestry element and I am only reminded by this by seeing the grasping the sparrows tale(pun intended) as a take down. I was told by my teacher that there are no single applications for taiji, that the movements are versatile, and that moreover the movements are energies and are found inside, so you could rollback a punch that hits your belly with the same energy as rollingback a punch you intercept some other way.

Please forgive my ignorance, I am only a beginning student and do not wish to cause trouble and these are my early observations.

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Post by Psi Man » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:47 am

Yeah, the fundamental Aikido waza do emphasize the same applied movement as in Grasp Sparrow's Tail. And there are some fun books out there that explain the history and techniques of Ueshiba.

What sort of Tibetan influence is there in Ninjutsu training?

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Post by josh stout » Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:55 am

Our school is full of wonderful though unverifiable martial lore, that says interesting things about other martial arts that are usually completely unrecognizable to people who study those arts. So here is my school's left field take on taiji and aikido.

According to my teacher, aikido is the small circle, while taiji is the big circle. So in an aikido throw, there is a small circle and the person's momentum moves around it and they land on the mat. In taiji, the big circle, sometimes moving through two people, causes someone to move around their center, and they fall or stagger as they try to regain their center.

Obviously both styles use circles, and there are only so many applications, so movements can be similar. Also because both styles are flexible, there is no reason big circles cannot be made small, or small ones big.

So anyway, I thought a slightly different perspective on this might be interesting.
Josh
hidup itu silat, silat itu hidup

-Suhu

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Post by Scott M. Rodell » Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:47 am

josh stout wrote:... no reason big circles cannot be made small, or small ones big...
Actually the reason why I orginally posted that application is that most students of Yang Family Michuan Taijiquan are familiar with the smaller circle applications of this movement, where it is used to deflect a push or strike. This movement in particular has the perhaps the greatest size variation possible from so small you can hardly see the circle to this large throwing application.

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Post by josh stout » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:05 pm

Thanks, that is an interesting comment. The size of the circle in the pictures was so large it made me think of my teacher's remarks. When the circle is small, does it act as an axis in the manner of the small circle of aikidao? I understand that the question might be difficult to give a single answer to. Martial lore is full of over generalizations like "The North kicks, the South punches." Personally I am fascinated how applications that might be common to a range of arts, still can be based on a single principle from one art. For example the circles of taiji can be made big or small with many applications, but it is a single principle.

Josh
hidup itu silat, silat itu hidup

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Post by J HepworthYoung » Mon Jul 07, 2008 2:29 pm

What sort of Tibetan influence is there in Ninjutsu training?
The use of training sessions in cold envionments outside, even in the snow, is found in some ninpo ryu's.

The dorje/vajra symbols found in religious aspects of ninpo are rather like the tibetan types, as opposed to indian or chinese, though the chinese types are too closer to the tibetan version than the Indian. The tibetan diety Acalanatha is also the japanese Fudo Myo, japanese depictions of him tend to hold a very jian like sword too.

They say Bodiharma practiced Kalari and Sidhartha was born a Kashatryia. There is more to the martial art side of hindu religions (inc buddhism) than many people may be aware of. There is for example a great deal of martial practicality to the various positions of religious statues, and in many cases multiple armed statues show a range of motion and illustrate multiple weapons, as opposed to representing deities with multiple arms. Anyway there seems to be a tibetan influence in japan.

Look at some kalari footage on youtube and look for techniques analogous to tai chi's kicks and hand gestures. Of course it is all co-incidental ;)

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