Press

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Linda Heenan
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Press

Post by Linda Heenan » Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:05 pm

Yesterday, our group was working on applications. We began at the start of 1st Section Michuan Form, and started practising an application for each movement. Laoshi has recently been through them with us in our July seminars.



At the seminar we worked on Press, amongst many other things. When some people practised on me, it felt as though that strike went deep inside. It was very effective and I could still feel the the effects of the practise session about a week later.



I can't seem to make it work though. When I was doing it with a partner yesterday, all he could feel was a little push. It wasn't going inside and I'm doing it wrong. I'm hoping somebody might be able to explain this in a way I can understand and start working on.

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Re: Press

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:36 am

Linda Heenan wrote:... Press... I can't seem to make it work though... all he could feel was a little push. It wasn't going inside and I'm doing it wrong...


Press (ji) is perhaps the most difficult of the eight basic movements to learn. During my travels, I've observed that few students actually press when attempting this technique, instead pushing with their hands in press position. One reason why press is so tricky to get right, or to make happen at all, is that the threshold for acceptable error is quite high for this movement. What I mean is, if one have some tension in your arms & aren't quite perfectly connected, one can still often get some push (an) fajin thru the body. With press, even a fairly small amount of tension in the arms tends to completely block the transmittion of the fajin.



So how to move forward? First, don't try too hard, don't go for a big result straight away. Trying for real power right at the beginnig typically causes the student to fall back on using muscular strength. Just work to get it right with a little power. Once the technique is right, it will be easy to add power. Second, work on making sure your arms are lose & completely controled by the waist so that they become one intend, one motion of the entire body instead of two separate arms banging together with power from coming from the arm muscles squeezing the palms together.

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Re: Press

Post by Roland Tepp » Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:27 am

Linda Heenan wrote:At the seminar we worked on Press, amongst many other things.
Press is imo one of the trickiest basic techniques I can think of. Being practicing for some time I could not understand the press until 3+ years of practice. Even now I can't swear to be able to perform it as casually as say a push.


Linda Heenan wrote:I can't seem to make it work though. When I was doing it with a partner yesterday, all he could feel was a little push. It wasn't going inside and I'm doing it wrong. I'm hoping somebody might be able to explain this in a way I can understand and start working on.


You are probably pushing your duifang instead of doing a press. This is common mistake of all the beginners I've seen. They usually push with their hands in "press position" and if it does not work, they usually try pushing even harder with their hands.



There are two common mistakes here:
  • First one is using your hands. Hands should not perform the technique - they should just deliver it. The technique (be it press, push, pull, wardoff or any other) has to be performed by using your whole body. The force generated by feet, transformed by waist and delivered by hands/shoulder/foot.
  • Second mistake is pushing - press is not a push and if you try to push your opponent, you'll end up doing just that. It might work or it might not, but it will definately not be press and it will not "collapse any hollows".


To do a press you should first start by imagining your hands being direct extentions of your hips. When you spiral up and down with your waist, your left hip pushes and pulls your left hand and right hip pushes and pulls your right hand.



Say You do the press from the first press of the first section, you stand with your right leg forward and right palm outside facing in, left palm inside facing out (your right palm). To press from this position you turn your waist (actually rapidly yanking it to right and then turning back) spiralling down to "hard side", then your right hip should pull at your right hand and left hip pushes at the left hand. Your left hand moves with hip forward and right moves back with right hip. This way you are neither pushing nor pulling, but doing a slight "pressing" movement with your palms.



The energy you'll use should be as short as possible. If body alignment is correct and you do it without tensing muscles of your hands or braking your structure, you should be able to perform fairly decent press.



The less tension in your muscle there is the better press will you get.
Roland

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Post by Linda Heenan » Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:43 pm

Scott Rodell wrote:
if one have some tension in your arms & aren't quite perfectly connected, one can still often get some push (an) fajin thru the body. With press, even a fairly small amount of tension in the arms tends to completely block the transmittion of the fajin.


Okay, I definitely had all of that wrong :? It's just as well I haven't gone far enough to actually train bad habits in this area. I'm starting again with press.



Scott Rodell wrote:
First, don't try too hard, don't go for a big result straight away.... Just work to get it right with a little power......work on making sure your arms are lose & completely controled by the waist so that they become one intend, one motion of the entire body.


Thank you. That helps. In our group, it seems everyone has things they understand quickly and other things they don't. This is one of my slow ones :wink: and I'll just have to work on it step by step, sticking to the right principles and letting it develop over time.



Roland Tepp wrote:
I could not understand the press until 3+ years of practice


:) I feel much more relaxed about it after hearing that. I know how carefully you think things through, as evidenced by your good explanation on this topic. If you found it tricky, I'm in good company.



Roland Tepp wrote:
To do a press you should first start by imagining your hands being direct extentions of your hips. When you spiral up and down with your waist, your left hip pushes and pulls your left hand and right hip pushes and pulls your right hand.



Say You do the press from the first press of the first section, you stand with your right leg forward and right palm outside facing in, left palm inside facing out (your right palm). To press from this position you turn your waist (actually rapidly yanking it to right and then turning back) spiralling down to "hard side", then your right hip should pull at your right hand and left hip pushes at the left hand. Your left hand moves with hip forward and right moves back with right hip. This way you are neither pushing nor pulling, but doing a slight "pressing" movement with your palms.


That is easy for a beginner like me to understand. Thanks for taking the time to write it down. Now let's see how long I can make my husband stand still and get practised on..... after that, I'll have to find a patient piece of vegetation in the back yard.....



One more question. Supposing a student in the future of our group over here, thinks they have got press right but have actually done it with wrong mechanics and trained a bad habit .... how can it be successfully retrained? I don't have anyone in mind. This question is because both Laoshi and Roland have said it is the most difficult to learn, so it is almost certain this difficulty will come up in our future.

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Post by Roland Tepp » Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:16 am

Linda Heenan wrote:One more question. Supposing a student in the future of our group over here, thinks they have got press right but have actually done it with wrong mechanics and trained a bad habit .... how can it be successfully retrained?


With the same patience. They'll know they are doing it wrong. specially if you (being able to do it right) demonstrate the difference and point out their mistakes.



There is really not much more you can do but point out what is wrong and explain what is right - everything else is all up to the student to learn. If they are not able to change all that they've learned to learn new and better habbits, you can not make them do that either.



Just be inventive and ty to cnvince them where they've got it wrong.
Roland

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Re: Press

Post by Mark Linett » Mon Apr 05, 2010 9:04 pm

The way that Wang Laoshi taught Press when he was giving Tuishou classes in the 90's was to have the partner cross his hands over his chest and the person doing the press would place his arm in Peng on his partner.The person practicing Press would move forward onto from his back leg onto his front in Press.
Wang Laoshi emphasized that that the power of the Press came primarily from the back, as well as from the turning of the waist and the sinking onto the front leg.The Press can be used to protect against a shoulder strike from the back leg but the strike is usually on the front leg. But again the power comes from the waist and relaxing the Weilu point in the lower back. Also important is to relax the chest as we sink into the front leg.
Wang Laoshi also taught two types of movements when the Press is made. One where the arms are rather rounded and one where the elbows sink as the Press is made. This depends on whether you are in the advantageous position or the disadvantageous position as the pusher (Presser). Finally perhaps the most difficult part is to remember that the Press doesn't actually come from pressing one hand into the other; the hand that is in Peng
comes back to meet the hand that is moving forward. The meeting of the two hands creates the explosion of power.Timing and use of the whole body in the movement is paramount.

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Re: Press

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:33 am

Mark Linett wrote:The way that Wang Laoshi taught Press... Tuishou classes... was to have the partner cross his hands over his chest and the person doing the press would place his arm in Peng on his partner...
This helps protect the person being presses from injury.

Thanks for the though explanation Mark...

A photo of Wang Yen-nien Laoshi circa 1960's applying press.
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Re: Press

Post by J HepworthYoung » Thu Apr 08, 2010 11:29 am

Press is among the coolest and most effective moves in all of Taijiquan, that is; in my opinion. It reminds me of being hit with a car door, done slow it displaces you, but done quickly it shatters.

I divide the technique into three related aspects:

The first is the transmission of the energy through the intermediate (leading) hand or arm, this aspect of the technique can be done in many ways, including through the leg, through another persons arm, through a weapon, or even through an entire other person!!

The second is a way of levering that squeezes the duifang like a grape in a book, basically like a press that squeezes things. In this way the energy press can be done with most any taiji technique, just the same way you can use the technique of press but manifest Peng, Lu, An, Kao or any of the 8 energies, even the pluck and split energies can be done with the press technique.

The third aspect is that press is a combination of the Peng and Lu energies in a specific way, the reverse combination being An. It has to do with the wave structure and what parts are substantial and what parts are insubstantial. In this manner the frequency of the wave, which we interpret as the speed of the strike, can be varied greatly, this is nice because it is very hard to do quickly without having done it slowly, but once it starts working right slowly then it can be gradually increased.


For me, the timing is as important as the technical detail, though perhaps I do it wrong.
In this regard it has a cloth/paper, rock scissors aspect to it that is also important. Part of why it is so awesome is related to using it with the right timing. Also working on this one for me involved striking many things that vary in how hard and soft they are, when I worked on it with a person at first their energies sometimes prevented me from understanding what my own energies were doing.

For me each of the energies also corresponds to weapon use and press, in the second and third aspect I mention, is again one of my favorite energies. I also like it with bump, if someone touches your stomach with a rigid arm,just do the move, but express the energy through your abdomen instead of through your arms. It is a wrist spraining move and the smaller it is the better when expressing it this way.

But I am just an obsessive enthusiast, so my views and experiences are likely inferior to those of those who have decades of practical experience instead of just a few years of intense practice and study. So please view my words as opinion and not as credible. I note for example that my view of An, is a little bit different than a push, due to the fulcrum location in relation to the wave structure. An is more perpendicular to the target plane, press is more horizontal, An transmits through a path that moves from the fulcrum in a linear fashion, press moves at a right angle to this. You can change the angle of either during transmission to manifest the other, provided that is the proper response to your duifang.

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