Questions on qi circulation.

[Linda Heenan]

Qi isn't mystical any more than electricity or magnetism are. A person would certainly feel a lightning strike if he was in the way of it jumping the gap to earth. Hold a magnet close to a pile of pins and they will be drawn across space. Our body is full of electrical and magnetic impulses. Think about how the brain works, or the heart, and how cells are made up. If we can control these forces from our world and channel them into usefulness, why shouldn't we be able to do this within our own bodies. And why wouldn't it be accompanied by feelings of well being if we are gathering up something scattered around, putting it to it's right use and making our bodies work better. This might seem a fairly simplistic view. Obviously there is a bit more to qi than I just said, but taking out the mysticism and making it practical works better for me.

[XeroWolf]

Yep, I totally agree. There has got to be an explination to it. It couldn't have been around for thousands of years otherwise. Though, I think it will be easier for me to learn Qi circulation through the old methodes.



From past experiances in western style fencing, I have fought with the english style, the french style, the italian, and ocationally the spanish style. Excluding the english style because they don't care about winning or losing points, it's all about how flamboyant you are (At least the ones I've fought, could be wrong). The worst style I've encountered out of those has been the spanish style.



I have been beaten by every style in western fencing, even the flamboyent one, except the spanish style, even though I was just an amature. I was curious to see why the spanish style was rare and also not very good. So I asked my teacher and his response was something like: "Do you remember the movie, "The Mask of Zorro" and the circles they used to train the new Zorro." and I told him yea. "That is the typical spanish ideal of fencing, turning and explaining the movements into geometry and other forms of math", I didn't understand why that would be a bad thing so I asked why. " They define their moves in their head before they use them, calculating distances and angles of best approach to use the most efficient methode. (He named a boxer who's name I can't rember) That boxor, who happened to be world champion, knew the right time to quit boxing because when he realized he thought about blocking a punch before it hit him, he knew his reactions were too slow to compete with the yonger boxers. So you see, fencing is an art, you don't try to analyse every movement and thought, you just do it."



I think what he said was right. So when I learn qi, I am going to try learning it by doing it rather than rationalizing it. Am I right in thinking that?

[iglazer]

There are a lot of aspects of the art that can be hampered by overthinking. Overthinking is essentially no different than clentching muscles. You wouldn't do a form with your shoulders all clentched and you shouldn't practice any aspect of the art with your mind racing, overthinking, being crafty, and clentched.

[XeroWolf]

Yea I thought that. Thanks

[Tashi James]

There are a lot of aspects of the art that can be hampered by overthinking. Overthinking is essentially no different than clentching muscles. You wouldn't do a form with your shoulders all clentched and you shouldn't practice any aspect of the art with your mind racing, overthinking, being crafty, and clentched.

The times when I do my form trying to improve too much are the times when I often lose my balance, both physically and mentally. So this I guess comes back to fangsong

[Tashi James]

Are there better times to do neigong? Are there times when it should not be done? Such as when feeling ill and so forth. Can we do neigong in a cross legged posture or would this block the leg meridians? What about a few cycles standing in the shower?

[Tashi James]

This is a question for Laoshi;, though opinion is welcome,



Is the circulation techiniques we were taught part of Neigong or TuNa?



At what point do the other elements Heavens, Earth etc become involved? It seems that there is always slight activity at the Baihei, Yongquan and Mingmen points where we may I guess cultivate this further {later when we have some success with the circulation}! Is this true or false reasoning?

[Scott M. Rodell]

Please cross reference this thread with the tread:

Internal Work According to Yang Taijiquan Lineage

http://www.grtc.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=171

[Linda Heenan]

Laoshi, when we were practising qi circulation at the Brisbane seminar, you told us to keep our eyes open. Would you mind explaining the reason for this?

[Scott M. Rodell]

... when... practising qi circulation... keep our eyes open...reason... ?

Qi is generally easier to get moving upwards than it is to bring back down the body. Sometimes this can mean that too much qi will accumulate in one's head. If this happens it can lead to severe head aches that pain killers will have little to no effect on. Keeping one's eyes open helps to prevent this excess acumulation of qi by allowing some to escape thur the eyes.



Also, generally speaking, our practice is not to remove ourselves from the world, but to move more easily & calmly in it. Closing one's eyes tends to cut one off from the world around one.

[DavidM]

Good question Linda, I had been wondering that myself, and thanks to Laoshi for the answer.

[Tashi James]

Thats interesting because I was taught in tib' buddhism to meditate with eyes open too..

[Benny Bangarms]

My main point was that what you are doing happens in your head but effects your whole body in ways that no one is likely to understand for quite a while. What you think is happening is probably actually happening in some very strange ways that leave me clueless.
Josh

the thing is that everything happens "in your head". there is no such thing as an objective reality outside of you, except potentially in some kind of advanced enlightened state. all of our senses are percieved in our heads. all of our perceptions of events, objects, people, etc. it's all in our heads. it's all interpretations of reality, not reality itself. qi is just as real as any other experience. even if it doesn't fit within the dogma of western science. afterall, western science is just in your head too. just becase all the scientists in your head agree with each other, and with "observable fact", doesn't mean that those facts and scientists exist outside of your head, at least not in the same way you percieve them. we are only conscious of a tiny fraction of the reality existing around us. we can have faith in religion or science, but in either case it's a partial truth at best.

me, i'll trust my own experience over what "experts" tell me is true. and for me, qi happens to be a substantial part of my experience. i can't see auras or ghosts, but i'm not about to let science try to convince me out of being able to see them. i find it best to try to keep as open a mind as possible.

[TCosta]

Does it feel, to anyone else, that they are kinda breathing in through their fingers, when doing zhan zhuang? While the circulation of qi through the body (i.e. torso and legs) has been explained to me, I have no way of understanding what is going on, in my arms. That has not been explained to me. I imagine that qi circulated to the hands must also circulate back. This would make sense with what i am feeling, but I am not sure it makes sense within the established framework of energy work.

Thank you.

[Tashi James]

the thing is that everything happens "in your head". there is no such thing as an objective reality outside of you, except potentially in some kind of advanced enlightened state.

An enlightened state is an enlightened state there is no distinction to be made as to whether it is advanced or not, Nirvana of course has two levels, path of seeing and path of no more learning.

This stilll happens in the mind of the meditator, only on the basis of cogent inference, it ceases to arise within the conceptual framework of the mental ststes.
The phrase "in your head" isn't good unless used in the context of neurophysiology.


With much kindness,
Tashi