YMT compared to Chen Style

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YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by Taiji Wuji » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:49 pm

How does YMT compare in general to the Chen Style? What are the advantages of the YMT style compared to others? From your videos, the form looks like you keep the majority of the weight on one leg most, if not all of the time. Is this true in your push hands and San shou forms too?

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Re: YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by Taiji Wuji » Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:17 pm

Maybe I can elaborate a little more. BTW, I haven't studied the Chen Style. Only a couple of Yang Styles. But, from the videos YMT looks like it keeps more of the weight on one leg, more of the time. Where many Yang styles seem to work between 60-40 to 70-30 and seem to be a little more upright, Chen style seems to be a generally lower style and looks to move much closer to a 51-49 weighting than other styles (maybe I'm wrong). YMT looks like it works mostly between 80-20 to 90-10, and seems higher. But, maybe that's just how it looks in the video. I've also read that Chen style puts emphasis on outward display of fa-jing and emphasis on constantly maintaining a state of peng jing or outward expansion.

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Re: YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by J HepworthYoung » Sat Sep 10, 2011 9:54 am

Taiji Wuji wrote:Maybe I can elaborate a little more. BTW, I haven't studied the Chen Style. Only a couple of Yang Styles. But, from the videos YMT looks like it keeps more of the weight on one leg, more of the time. Where many Yang styles seem to work between 60-40 to 70-30 and seem to be a little more upright, Chen style seems to be a generally lower style and looks to move much closer to a 51-49 weighting than other styles (maybe I'm wrong). YMT looks like it works mostly between 80-20 to 90-10, and seems higher. But, maybe that's just how it looks in the video. I've also read that Chen style puts emphasis on outward display of fa-jing and emphasis on constantly maintaining a state of peng jing or outward expansion.
I've worked with a Chen stylist before but primarily practice a version of Yang Style. The weighting of Chen style is varied and cannot be seen easily, often what looks double weighted is not. Remember there are a few Chen forms and they differ to some degree, it is best to find someone trained seriously in this style and inquire.

In my limited experience the YMT style teaches better control over up and down, back and forth and such than the Yang public style does, that it is less vulnerable because of this and it (YMT) teaches better stepping.

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Re: YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by Taiji Wuji » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:29 am

Thank you for the reply. I have no experience with Chen Style, however, I have always assumed they are not double weighting, just coming closer than the other styles. It seems to allow them to be lower in some postures. I would guess there are both advantages and disadvantages to the differences between all the styles. Was hoping that someone might know these. I'm particularly interested in knowing of styles that would be very good for learning to use internal power and for martial use. I'd like to start studying Taiji again and want to pursue a style that is real Taiji and not just a dance.

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Re: YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by Linda Heenan » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:30 pm

In that case, you should be looking for a teacher rather than a style. There are martial artists and dance teachers in all styles. If you find someone who demonstrates real martial skill and students who do the same, you have an answer.
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Re: YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by Taiji Wuji » Sat Sep 10, 2011 5:41 pm

That makes complete sense. But I may end up with the luxury of being able to pick among multiple styles with skilled teachers. I live in Madison, WI and I don't think there are any martial taiji teachers in town. I'll probably have to drive to Illinois. I assume I might find a number of skilled teachers in the Chicago area. But that's just an assumption.

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Re: YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by J HepworthYoung » Sat Sep 10, 2011 10:00 pm

I think YMT and Chen would be more ideal than many of the Yang Styles around, but I also like Yang Style lines hailing from Chén Wēimíngs actual students.
i've also practiced different forms within a Taiji Club i participated in at a university, this is where i met the Chen stylist and did the Sun form and the Zhèng Mànqīng style as well as Chén Wēimíngs long form and various forms of push hands. Near the university a mandarin speaking group did a Wu form, my teacher did this as well and I was invited once and invited back, but never went. The Wu form had a lot in common with the Sun and the stepping was similar to YMT with a lot of half steps.

I studied a single form for a year, with push hands, before i began looking at the forms of other styles. Learning one with applications and push hands kind of made the others become far less mysterious and even self explanatory in funny ways. I can honestly say that there is so much shared content that finding a good teacher with skill you want and with skilled students is far more important than finding any single style. A lot of the people i met who did forms only really didn't know what they were doing and could not apply it even in simple push hands, that included some teachers who had taught for over a decade. However the people who practiced a whole system of any taiji style invariably impressed me with not only their skill, i was also impressed by their physical conditioning that resulted from serious practice for several years, something that cannot be rushed or overemphasized. The results of taiji in terms of conditioning are peculiar and amazing, quite distinct from other martial arts in my experience.

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Re: YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by Taiji Wuji » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:50 am

Would someone share some of strengths of the YMT style? What attracted you to it initially and/or what attracted you to stay with the style? I can see from the GRTC main site that the teacher(s) are probably very skilled. So that may have been the entire reasoning for many. But for those who found they really liked the style, what did you like?

I don't think I'll be able to study the Chen style. Can anyone describe how the Wu, Sun and YMT compare? Also, how YMT differs from other Yang Styles? I understand that this is asking a lot. But if anyone could summarize the major differences, I would appreciate the help.

Thank you.

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Re: YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by J HepworthYoung » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:53 am

to summarize the differences is not so easy,

the first thing i would suggest is to learn the applications and principals of a single form in detail
then compare the forms of Sun, Wu, Wu-Hao, YMT, Yang and Chen.

you can compare forms easily right now, but Taiji tends to hide so much
I don't know what you have learned, or been taught, so maybe you can make the comparisons yourself

YMT as a style is very practical and I like the applications a lot, it seems to counter Yang Style rather well.
It is almost like Yang Style is YMT with the best stuff removed.

What Yang Style material are you familiar with?
You mentioned San Shou?
is that a form in the way you were taught?

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Re: YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by Taiji Wuji » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:20 pm

Over the last 20 years, I've studied Yang Styles off and on. It's been hard to find teachers. I've learned and forgotten the shorter and longer TT Liang Yang form. Learned from a student/teacher of one of TT Liangs main students.

I slowly quit after moving to Madison, WI 15 years ago. There is a Chen Man Ching short form group here in town. But, the teachers are students of a student of a student of Chen Man Chings and they only teach for health. No push hands and no fighting form (San Shou - sp?). I've watched their practice three times with different instructors each time and didn't feel it was what I was looking for.

There is also a group in town, that I've just found this year that teaches the YMT form. They originally learned a variation of the form in California. My understanding is they've since learned the original version of the form from workshops with Wang Yen-Nien and his senior students before his passing. They said they have a TuiShou (push hands) and SanShou (SP?) (Fighthing form?) class for advanced students.

I'm trying to decide whether to study YMT with them or find a teacher within a couple hours drive with whom to study another form. I just want to make sure I learn the proper form, the applications and the internal development parts in addition to a form. I don't plan on fighting, but I've always believed that separating a thing from it's true purpose can't help but change the thing. So, I want to study with someone that can teach more than just the form.

YMT looks so different from other forms I've seen, therefore I'm unsure of the value of the form. Fear of the unknown I guess.

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Re: YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by KungFuPanda1979 » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:20 am

I agree that its more important to choose a teacher then to choose a style. Also the personality of the instructor is important too. No good having a highly skilled teacher who hold back all the good stuff and only show them to his 'inner circle'. But judging from what you've said so far, I would give that local YMT group a go, especially if they have received instruction from the source, and it may save you hours of traveling time that you can spend practising.

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Re: YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by Taiji Wuji » Fri Sep 16, 2011 4:36 am

I've watched the local YMT group a couple of times and I'm going to study with them. It's certainly more back leg weighted than the Yang style I've studied before, but it also seems to work spiraling energy very well and seems to have a strong lineage. Good point about being able to invest the travel time in practice time, another very strong reason to stay local.

I just hope YMT proves to be a good style for developing internal alchemy.

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Re: YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by J HepworthYoung » Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:41 pm

i think that if you stick with YMT for awhile you will be pleased with the result
those who practice it seem to have good spirit and skill
i bet your background helps you appreciate it and apply yourself well
do they do any swordsmanship or spear work?

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Re: YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by Taiji Wuji » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:06 am

They offer a sword, staff and cane class.

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Re: YMT compared to Chen Style

Post by J HepworthYoung » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:23 am

that sounds quite nice
i would do it if i were you

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