Saviolo fencing

Discussion of Chinese historical swordsmanship from all styles.

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kg6cig
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Re: Saviolo fencing

Post by kg6cig » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:02 pm

Linda Heenan wrote:As the family cook, I often cut pork legs. I have to saw into them even with a sharp kitchen knife. However, the skin on my hands is much softer than that.

That said, I've trained in halfswording techniques including batting a thrust out of the way. The person teaching me these things is an expert swordsman and following the techniques set down in European manuals. One day he was deflecting a cut from me in this manner. I accidentally dislocated his thumb. The techniques are out there; they are used. I'd still be very careful and do this only if there was no other choice.
That's for sure! That's a point we often lose: this is not something you _want_ to do. It's a choice between that and, well, dying horribly. The prospect of a cut hand is, however unpleasant, preferable to getting staked through the eye. But I'd rather be drinking beer and eating sausage, all things considered.

FYI- I realized after posting that I neglected to point out- a _skinned_ pork leg. Pigskin is tough, as you've noted!

Regards,

Joseph
(who was sorta hoping that oversight wouldn't get noticed...)

taiwandeutscher
Rank: Chang San feng
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Re: Saviolo fencing

Post by taiwandeutscher » Tue Jun 15, 2010 9:43 pm

Yeah, now I'm with you. If there is no other way....

Best way, though, would be the part with beer and sausage, lol.

Cheers! And happy Dargon Boot festival, we have holidays, eat lots of zongzi (and I drink beer!)
hongdaozi

kg6cig
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Re: Saviolo fencing

Post by kg6cig » Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:12 pm

Nik wrote:Hello Joseph,

didn't want to break up a "war on truth". :)
LOL- we do have our opinions, don't we?
The way you describe sounds as if you are grabbing the knife without pressing directly onto the edge, but merely have the edge between thumb and index finger. Also the disarming would be done in that manner, not downright grabbing the edges with force. Depending on the edge geometry and level of sharpness, and possibly the carbides size from crystallization, you would get cut after a certain amount of pressure is applied. And, I have no idea how much is too much there, and would not suggest to try that.
Okay, I was good until "carbides size from crystallization." :-)

Actually, in both cases- cooking and disarming- you are grabbing around the blade, so there is direct pressure on the edge. But you grasp it very fimrly, so there is little chance of slip, and the disarm as to be fast, so the opponent doesn't get a chance to pull back. You also have to immobilize his wrist before the disarm- just for the instant you need to do it.

As far as how much: I can exert white-knuckle pressure on a blade that will cut tri-tip like it was butter without cutting myself. But, when doing that, I'm really careful not to slip even a millimeter, cause it'd darn near take my hand off.

Regards,

Joseph

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RKurczewski
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Re: Saviolo fencing

Post by RKurczewski » Wed Jan 02, 2013 9:48 pm

Since I did a lot of italian fencing I'd dare to make one point. Yes, italian masters advised grabbing a sword of adversary (as a last resort) BUT please, remeber how blade of rapier of that time was shaped. Only as much as 1/3 of it was sharpened and, to be honest, cuts do not really play big role after 1600, so grabbing an unsharpened blade through any kind of leather glove (or even without it) was relatively safe. It would be totally different with early rapier, as used, say- 50 years earlier (think Marozzo), which is in fact closest thing to jian european fencing had, both in terms of blade geometry and advised techniques (of course as far as my, very limited, knowledge goes).

taiwandeutscher
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Re: Saviolo fencing

Post by taiwandeutscher » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:58 pm

[quote="RKurczewski"]Since I did a lot of italian fencing I'd dare to make one point. Yes, italian masters advised grabbing a sword of adversary (as a last resort) BUT please, remeber how blade of rapier of that time was shaped. Only as much as 1/3 of it was sharpened and, to be honest, cuts do not really play big role after 1600, so grabbing an unsharpened blade through any kind of leather glove (or even without it) was relatively safe. It would be totally different with early rapier, as used, say- 50 years earlier (think Marozzo), which is in fact closest thing to jian european fencing had, both in terms of blade geometry and advised techniques (of course as far as my, very limited, knowledge goes).[/quote]

Sounds good and solid!
Thanks!
hongdaozi

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