Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Discussion of Chinese historical swordsmanship from all styles.

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J HepworthYoung
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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by J HepworthYoung » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:13 pm

Can I purchase this sword through GRTC or Seven Stars Trading?
Now that it is out I would love to find it, but preferably below hanwei list price.
I am in the USA.

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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:01 pm

J HepworthYoung wrote:... purchase this sword through... Seven Stars Trading?
... I would love to find it... below hanwei list price...
Certainly! I was just waiting for my web master to get a new page up for this jian...
CAS/Hanwei Price is $399.00
We sell this jian for $279.99
& we ship any where in the world...

If you can't wait for the web page to be up, you can place an order by call Seven Stars at: 703/573-2939
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J HepworthYoung
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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by J HepworthYoung » Mon Jan 11, 2010 1:57 pm

Please forgive my impatience.
I am merely excited about the release of this sword.

If I may inquire,
if I buy two at once, can I save on shipping?

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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:48 pm

J HepworthYoung wrote:... if I buy two at once, can I save on shipping?
Certainly...

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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:46 am

J HepworthYoung wrote:Can I purchase this sword through.. Seven Stars Trading?
... below hanwei list price...
Yes & Yes...

Please see - http://www.sevenstarstrading.com/html/h ... gjian.html

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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:02 am

There is a very through third party review of this new Hanwei Cutting Jian with many photos including those of the sword disassembled at & some video of test cutting plastic bottles at:
http://sbgswordforum.proboards.com/inde ... 244&page=1

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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by Fei Li » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:59 am

Dear Mr Rodell,

First of all gratulations to your beautiful new sword!
I would be interested in what your sources were, regarding the design of the sword?
Especially the guardstyle intrigues me.

Thank you in advance!
Fei Li

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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Fri Jan 22, 2010 11:46 am

Fei Li wrote:... gratulations to your beautiful new sword!... what your sources were, regarding the design of the sword?... Especially the guard style intrigues me.
Thanks Fei Li.

:arrow: To answer your question, as a dealer & serious researcher I've been able to gain access to both the best private collections & top museum reserve collections (including the Met, Russian State Historical Museum, & West Point) & have owned over 600 hundred pieces. All together, I have handled over 3000 antique Chinese swords. That experience has provided me with a very large reference pool. The design for both the hilt & scabbard fittings, & the blade dimensions, were taken from examples in my own collection. The style of the guard has been in use since the Ming dynasty & can be seen in various period illustrations including one of a Ming governor. As for the blade geometry, I have been investigating different historical variations for sometime, often in consultation with my good friend swordsmith, Paul Champagne, who we sadly lost last year. Many years ago, when I began reviving test cutting in Chinese swordsmanship, there was no one else cutting with Chinese swords (in fact we often told that you couldn't cut with a straight sword, happily my early videos changed that misconception). Being the first back in, I had no one in our Chinese arts to ask advice of. So I had to do the research myself, having a lot of period blades on hand, & being great friends with one the best smith around, certainly made the job easier. As for the geometry I finally settled on, I tested several versions that ranged from the very tough, but not very sharp to increasingly sharp with a thinner spin. The object was to find a blade that would cut soft targets commonly employed by most practitioners (i.e. milk jugs) but would also stand up to the toughest targets. Having personally, throughly tested all these variations, I am confident the geometry I choose for this jian will do that job.

While this sword is described as "Designed by Scott M. Rodell," it is would be more accurate to say of a period design "resurrected by Scott M. Rodell," as I didn't invent these designs, but worked to choose those I found to be elegant & beautiful for their shape alone without the need for engraved designs.

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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by J HepworthYoung » Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:33 pm

This is the first production level real Jian in how many years?
Custom swords have been around, and antiques, but when was the last time a working model jian was produced to a standard? I figure that it might be about a century.

Laoshi,
You didn't just resurrect this sword did you? Your efforts, along with those of your close colleagues have resurrected real taijiquan swordsmanship, which had at least one foot in the grave before you came along.

This sword appears to be part of the effort to preserve historically accurate swordsmanship, which cannot be spread with expensive antiques and customs swords, nor weak wooden and flimsy wushu swords. Having swords like this is a key part of being able to preserve and restore historically accurate Chinese Swordmanship.

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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by J HepworthYoung » Sat Jan 23, 2010 3:26 pm

This is the first production level real Jian in how many years?
Okay, I did not mean this rhetorically.
I want an answer if I can get it.

When was the last time a real jian was made like this?
To a real working standard on a non-custom production level.

What year or decade was it in all probability?

But, to add a note that we all have heard but is seldom played:
This appears to be among the most dangerous of weapons ever made.
It is perhaps too easy to underestimate it.

It would seem that it is a real sword and thus is prepared for all things a sword must do.
It is clear that it was made to be able to cut the way a sword should.
Will it deflect/reflect/glance the way a sword should?
Has it been tested in this regard?
I assume that the ability to cut hardwood targets entails the resilience required to parry, but I don't have any experience with using a metal blade to parry (not counting foil in college). I have only used wooden jians and sticks to parry at this point and have less than an hour of practice doing it, so I know virtually nothing about it.

Also has anyone stressed a model of the sword to a breaking point or some other form of catastrophic failure?
It is an extreme and needless test, but it is informative nonetheless.

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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by Nik » Sun Jan 24, 2010 6:51 am

If you plan to do breaking tests, WEAR PROTECTIVE GEAR. And I don't mean fancy sunglasses, I mean protective chainmail gear used by butchers in large slaughterhouses, which cover arms (completely!), legs and body, and a welder helmet.

There was an "accident" recently in fraternity fencing circles here, involving cheaply made crap blades from a well known big name "sword producer" manufacturing really in china rather than were he claims to do (not Hanwei), when a chip was flying off the edge and scored. The guy lost his eye. This tells you to never even "toy" with a sword without minimum protective gear including face and throat protection, let alone doing breaking tests. When the pieces of the breaking sword rebound through the room, they can hit anything in the room.

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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by Fei Li » Fri Feb 05, 2010 5:20 am

I just got my cutting jian yesterday and well – it is a beauty!
Very, very nice, especially the scabbard. Handling is also great, I can't wait to test it!

I got one question though to Mr Rodell:
As mentionend in the review that you posted elsewhere, I also find the handle rather long.
It does not bother me, but is there a special reason for it?
Like historical examples with the same measurements or is it intended to allow to be used two-handed?

Thank you in advance

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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by Robert Bemoras » Fri Feb 05, 2010 9:49 am

I would also like to chime in on the dimensions of the cutting jian. First of all, I have to say that I am thoroughly satisfied with the finished product. My compliments Laoshr. I work out at a school that is dedicated to internal Chinese martial arts. Yang style, from the Dong family, and Chen style taiji are practiced as well as Hsing-I and Bagua. I am a Yang/Dong practitioner. The dimensions of this sword closely resemble those which the Bagua practitioners at the school use. Their jian and dao have longer handles and blades than what is believed to be the norm for taiji. These weapons are also historically accurate pieces. Just an observation.

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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by jonpalombi » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:28 am

Greetings Gents,

Having collected antique Chinese swords since 1993, I have been lucky enough to buy, see and/or handle many antique Qing Dynasty jians. Twelve years before I actually began to study taijiquan swordsmanship with Laoshi, I knew him as "Scott", a really nice antiquities dealer, who had access to some of the finest antique Chinese swords offered in the Western market-place. The new Hanwei Cutting Jian, being of full-sized chang jian proportions, most accurately mirrors these historic parameters. Most chang jian do have a longer handle than 20th and 21st century practice swords and higher-end historical reproductions. Especially the jians with 30-32 inch blades on them. Duan jian with blade lengths from 22-26 inches, almost always have the standard 5-6 inch grip. Perhaps this new cutter may have a slightly longer grip, by an inch or so? Seems like it but that's fine by me, since the extra length does leaves open the option of gripping the jian with both hands, for some of the more powerful cuts that are required to get through double mats or bamboo-cored single mats (although, most of the time, I use a single-handed grip for the majority of my cutting practice). Having this feature is a plus to me but I can see how it might seem awkward to some folks, at first. I can't wait to get mine and start working out with it! From my experience with the one I handled in early December, my only comment is, "Bravissimo!" 8)

Be well and practice often, Jon Palombi
A wise person aspires to learn the practice of swordsmanship. A lucky person finds a worthy Teacher. A fool cannot tell the difference.

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Re: Hanwei Cutting Jian?

Post by Fei Li » Mon Feb 08, 2010 8:31 am

just to clarify: I was just curious, about the handle.
I have no complaints about this great sword! :)

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