Chinese Jian Blade Construction

[bond_fan]

I was wondering people's experience in handling antique Chinese swords does any one know on the san mai/insert steel constructed ones was the type of steel used for the center core most likely to be of or similar to modern 1050 steel construction and a higher carbon steel for the outer layers?

I'm wondering if it is wiser to make a jian blade with a harder core, like 1075 or 1095 steel that is harder, but as a result less flexible? I've read that the harder steel is more brittle and prone to breakage, but will hold the edge better, while the softer steel is more flexible and not prone to breakage, but will not hold an edge as well.

And for daos, were those just made of folded steel or were they made like the jian with a softer core and harder outer pieces? It seems just folded tempered steel. If only folded steel what was likely to be the type of steel, similar to 1050 or higher?

For the dao construction, was flexibility, being able to bend without breaking more important like a jian or not?

Is there some where on-line that explains Chinese jian and dao construction better that some one can refer me to?

[Nik]

Usually, the jian construction is a hard layer forming the edge inserted into two softer, interwoven layers protecting the hard layer against breakage. There should be plenty of information here in this website, on swordforum.com, or to be found on the internet via google with keywords "jian sanmei".

[PaulC]

There doesn't seem to be just one way it was done, some I have examined have a softer or at least lower carbon plates on either side of the core, I have tested one where the outside plates have a higher carbon content in relation to the core/edge. This makes sense when you realize the span of time blades were made over, the different places they were made and by all of the different smiths. None of them, until very late had access to any standardized steel.

When talking about steel hardness, just because one has a higher carbon content does not mean it has to be harder or more brittle than one with a lower carbon content. You can temper back a 1095 sword to be much softer than a 1050 sword if you choose. Sure the extra carbides in the higher carbon piece can cause some issues, but the softer skins can help to alleviate much of this. How you plan on quenching will also effect your choice of steels - are you going to water quench or oil?

Simply put - its not the steel so much as what you do with it.
You wont get it right the first time you make one, so experiment, and choose one way say 1050 core and 1075 plates and try different variations in quenching and tempering, layer thickness etc untill you get the performance you desire.

It is always better for a sword to bend rather than break. This is universal across all cultures, there is very little evidence for through hardened springy swords in any culture until very late in the swords history.

Dao also have various construction arrangements, ie inserted edge, 3 layer, wrapped core etc.

There is no 'best' anything when it comes to swords design, You design for the situations the sword may encounter, but you have to find a balance and a compromise at almost every turn. The light fast sword may not be able to deflect or take a blow as well as a heavier, thicker one. The heavier thicker one may not be as quick in the hand or cut into soft targets as readily. Jian seem to vary quite a bit in length thickness, construction, hardness etc, much more than Dao.

[bond_fan]

Paul & Nik thanks for your replies.

Forum, Sifu Rodell, asked me to post my question about actual antique & modern blade dimensions on the forum for your opinions, so please look for my new post regarding Antique & Modern Jian Dimension Request and help me if you can.

Thanks!