Suggested Gear For Chinese Swordplay

[Linda Heenan]

Since we are pioneering swordsmanship of this type, at this level, it will take some time to trial different sorts of equipment until we have the most serviceable outfits. The gambesons are working well. Tassets add extra protection and are easy to move in. At the swordsmanship retreat, I did not acquire any bruises while wearing these articles. They all happened when we considered it too hot to wear them and "slowed down" the training for lighter equipment. I'm one of those still learning to slow down so my training partners can do the same.

We have checked out martial arts gloves, cricket gloves, and are now mainly using lacrosse gloves. They are not perfect but they are the best so far. Today I'm training with blunt steel, for which I must use maille covered gauntlets.

Helmets are still in the process of being trialled. There is no easy source of protective Chinese style helmets yet, but we are working on it. In the meantime, we are using the best we've found and having to temper our training to compensate for the faults. One problem not mentioned yet is that the grille bars are a little wide. One of my favourite training swords, which is otherwise correct in dimensions for tournament rules, could not be used at the retreat because it slipped through the grille and made face contact with a training partner. I'm having a helmet made by "That Guy's Products", as already stated on this forum, but his waiting list is a year long. Today, while training with reenactors, I'll get some help on setting up my steel helmet (already pictured on this forum), so that it sits at the right level for good visibility. It is adequate for blunt steel.

So, to sum up .... as already stated, it's not safe. I love this kind of training regardless of the fact it isn't always painless. I want to be the best I can be at this martial art and that doesn't come the easy way. We aren't there yet. It's a journey towards the best equipment at various levels of training. There is plenty of room out there for good craftsmen to take up the challenge and produce better equipment. In the meantime, we have to be a little careful in training, expect the unexpected, and make the most of what we have.

[Michael]

I may be a bit late to the game, but maybe I can provide a bit of a different perspective about gloves.

I study several types of European swordsmanship, but our protective needs are very similar. We train with blunted steel swords(rapiers, longswords, sideswords) and when we spar, it is expected that there will be some level of control. Without the experience to show restraint, protective equipment just won't cut it for steel weapons.

For gloves, there are a few options. For drills and other fairly light contact applications, I recommend Zen Warrior Armory's "Padded Fencing Glove". A pair runs $50, but is very agile and covers most of the forearm. I own a pair that fits me very well and I use them at every class. Padding is minimal. There is no padding at the fingers; it starts at the knuckles and continues down along the forearms. For minimal guards such as those you would find on most Chinese weaponry, this may prove to be a problem. I have had my fingers pretty seriously chewed up by longswords while using these gloves.

There are also three options at Revival.us, all of which I have seen or used. Their Light Sparring Gloves are very much like the last pair I mentioned, but with heavier padding, less forearm coverage as well as padding on the back of the fingers. One of my instructors uses these as his primary gloves for sparring. They cost about $45.

The Kevlar Reinforced Light Sparring Gloves are expensive, but pretty heavy duty. These are far bulkier than the previous two types, but provide stiff protection all along the hand and forearm. They're called "Light Sparring Gloves," but I believe that they provide much more protection than those previously mentioned. A guy in my class owns a pair of these, and he's happy with them. Their main cons are bulkiness and price($80).

Finally, there are the Medium Sparring Gloves. They cost about $50. The picture doesn't give you a very good sense of what they're like. I know, because I have just been given a pair as a gift and they are right next to me. I have yet to use them in class. They provide fairly thick protection from the wrist down to the fingers. However, these protect very little of the forearm compared to Zen Warrior's padded glove or the Kevlar gloves. This means that they're unlikely to get in the way of other forearm protection that you might be wearing. The padding is still lighter than you are likely to get with hockey or lacrosse gloves(I say this knowing very little about either), but it has clearly been designed with swordplay in mind. There are sections of breathable mesh on the palm and the entire sides of the fingers. However, there is no padding on the sides of the fingers, which means that they feel surprisingly unencumbered. I would consider this a plus, because only the padded sections are exposed when the hand is closed. The thumb padding is designed to cover the leading edge of the index finger, which means that it works better with some grips than others. If you are gripping a sword with a closed fist so that the thumb crosses the index finger(correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that this is the standard grip in most styles of Chinese swordsmanship), then this will work well. If your thumb is on the grip of the weapon or the index finger is wrapped around a finger ring, this is not so effective. I would not recommend these for use with a complex hilt, but they might serve your needs well. (edit: I have now used them. They are a lot like Lacrosse gloves, and they provide pretty good protection. They weren't great for use with a finger ring, and my wrists sure felt vulnerable, but the hands came away without a scratch)

Additionally, one of my teachers would regularly wear lightly padded gloves such as the first two, then slip SWAT Tactical Entry gloves over them for sparring. I don't know where he got the SWAT gloves, but I've worn them and they work great. I believe they were also cheaper than all of the above options. One problem with these gloves are several completely unprotected areas, which necessitates the wearing of gloves underneath.

For heavier sparring, the Kevlar-Reinforced Light Sparring Gloves and Medium Sparring Gloves are far better than the former two. The main difference between the two heavier gloves are their coverage of the forearm. The Kevlar gloves also look a bit nicer, if you ask me. It is unlikely that either will give you more protection than hockey/lacrosse gloves, but there is a difference when dealing with gloves that are made expressly for swordsmanship. I was recently in the market for heavier gloves(my hands have been beat up repeatedly by sparring with the Zen Warrior gloves) so I've done quite a bit of shopping around. There isn't a lot more that the swordsmanship community has to offer at a low price. Once we get into high-roller territory, there are also Kendo gloves and metal gauntlets to consider. But as far as I'm concerned, these are out of my price range.

I hope this helps. I can provide pictures of the Zen Warrior "Padded Fencing Gloves" or Revival "Medium Sparring Gloves" if someone would like to take a better look.

edit: Check out Sword Forum International for some more information. There are a lot of customers of these gloves over there, and at least one really good thread on it(which I can't find at the moment).

[Scott M. Rodell]

How much protection one chooses to wear when engaging in swordplay is a matter of person choice, a choice of how much risk the individual finds acceptable. I've noticed that one area that most do not protect well enough is the throat. When wearing a good gambeson, the throat is well protected, however, most don't wear their gambeson when it the weather is on the warmer side. For those willing to risk bruises to the body & possible broke ribs, by not wearing a gambeson, there is a product from Winter Tree Crafts that protects the neck well, a gorget of modern style, see - http://www.wintertreecrafts.com/armour.html

These gorgets are made by Erik Schmidt who is actively involved in the study of rapier, long sword, kenjitsu & Chinese swordsmanship, so he is well acquainted with needs of students of these arts.

[Linda Heenan]

I have one of those - got it at the same time as my helmet. It isn't one of Erik's but looks to be close to the same shape. I hadn't thought of wearing just that part of the armour in hot weather, but it's a good idea. Like any piece of armour, they take awhile to get used to wearing. It feels stiff and constricting but it would certainly help people not to bend their head forward - added bonus. I was wearing mine around the house trying to get used to it enough for the tournament earlier this year, but in the end left it out because I had so much to bring it just didn't fit in the bag. Could have worn it I suppose but it would have given the airport metal detectors and awful fright .

[Scott M. Rodell]

As the practice of Chinese Historical Swordsmanship has continued to grow & more tournaments are planned (Europe should have their first tournament next year), we've all been working to find the best gear available. The most difficult piece of gear to get is a good Chinese style gambeson. To date, everyone has had theirs' custom made. While this is no doubt the best gambeson a player can get, it can be a long process & doesn't come cheap, running about $500 (though they last a life time). One inexpensive alternative is to wear sports equipment, like that that worn by lacrosse players. This type of gear is available in most big sporting good stores & relatively cheap & can be purchased one bit at a time, say arm guards, then shoulders, etc. Such armor works well for training & students are showing up with it to my seminars. Unfortuately, it deos not meet the standards for play in TCSL Tournaments as it does not look historically accurate. However there is an easy fix for that, a set of Chinese Uniform over the lacrosse armor, here's one example-



435. Chinese Ancient Qing Dynasty Solider and Guard Costumes
Available from - http://www.china-cart.com/b.asp?page=22&i=762

One thing everyone considering this route should keep in mind is that, you must armor down to hip bone. All the guys showing up to seminars in lacrosse armor have had shoulder & arm guards, but nothing around the neck or covering the mid-section, so they wouldn't pass inspection at a TCSL Tournament.

[Linda Heenan]

Great idea, Laoshi. All sorts of armour can be hidden under a light Chinese style outer. We did that for the Youth Tournament, using such things as wetsuits under a Chinese silk robe.

Recently the Aussie Canberra students came up with another choice. They already have Chinese jackets for doing taji in and they found this armour, available in Australia at a reasonable price. It's built for sword training and we are about to trial it http://www.e-bogu.com/6_MM_Bogu_Set_p/a ... eted2-.htm

[Scott M. Rodell]

... Canberra students came up with another choice.... found this armour, available... at a reasonable price. It's built for sword training...

That's kendo armor, I'm not sure it will stand up to the solid wood weapons we use. After all, kendo uses a flexible bamboo shanai that is significantly lighter than our wasters.

[Linda Heenan]

kendo uses a flexible bamboo shanai that is significantly lighter than our wasters

True, but I think people using them can underestimate their strike force. I've had three fractured bones from shinai. The arm bone compressed through a standard thickness European reenactment gambeson and the two fingers broke through cricket gloves. So they would have to make them reasonably protective to avoid that. We have not tested this gear yet but will report back on it after the trial.

[Scott M. Rodell]

Just one good reason for NOT delaying the purchase if a solid helmet with throat protect...

(From the March Chinese Swordsmanship training in Vosu, Estonia).