Sword Sharpening and edge treatment of modern cutters

[Chris Fields]

Hey all, just a quick question. For the modern chinese Daos and Jians on the market, such as Huanuos, do you do an edge treatment before cutting with the blades? Or are they sharpened fully at the factory?

I know for some of the japanese blades from Paul Chen and such that we use for cutting, we have to take some water stones to the edge occasionally, from 80 - 10,000 grit, to sharpend and polish the edge to get a nicer edge on it than it came with. Some times I'll run it in on my 72" belt sander where there is no support behind the belt, with 6000 grit silicone carbide belts, and then go to higher grits with the water stones.

Also, for those who have rolled an edge on some hard cutting, what processes do you use to fix that roll? I have never had to fix a roll, however, I have done several other edge treatments, and i am guessing I would use the same methods. What I seem to do the most, is take niece pieces and actually grind the edge off of them to a rounded blunt. I hate doing this to a nice sword, but there are a lot of stage combat fighters and demo people in the area who want this done, these are people who buy two of each sword, and keep one sharp and blunt the other. In doing so I use my belt grinder and keep some water spraying on the blade to keep it cool while grinding so i don't loose that edge hardeness and temper. I have also had to reshape a few blades for some people who had a niece sword and just wanted to tweak it a little. For this I ground back the edge and reshaped the edge to match the geometery of the rest of the blade... so I guess that would similar to fixing a roll.

Just curious what the smiths out there think and how they would go about it. thanks

[Scott M. Rodell]

... For the modern Chinese Dao and Jian on the market... do you do an edge treatment before cutting with the blades? Or are they sharpened fully at the factory?

Both Huanuo & Zhou Zhengwu swords are quite sharp when they leave the factory, sharp enough to easily cut yourself wiping the blade down. One should use very real caution handling them.

As for the edge geometry, this is one area where, in my experience, all modern forges have room for improvement. Some will send out sword with a flat bevel. I've been working, behind the scenes, with different forges, & getting them to imporve their edge geometry. Happily, all are working to improve their products.

Having said this, whether or not one needs to work on the edge of a sword purchased in the last year, that depends in what you are cutting. If you are cutting rice straw mats or water filled plastic bottles alone, no, the edges of both Huanuo & Zhou's will hold up just fine. If you are cutting thick green bamboo, most should be fine. Remember, each sword is individually polished, so there will be some variation. Both my Huanuo Gold Royal Peony & my Zhou's Miaodao have stood up to plenty of hard cutting of even dry bamboo without a single incident of edge rolling. However, if I were planning on regularly cutting hardwood with either of these swords, I'd get a polisher to rework their edges for me.

In relation to edge sharpness, everyone might find this video interesting: Blunt European longsword cutting a straw mat
http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZuEGzOizJ-o

& this thread: Edge Sharpness Vs. Application
viewtopic.php?t=327

... rolled an edge on some hard cutting, what processes do you use to fix that roll?...

Please see the thread: Field Sharpening Swords
viewtopic.php?t=331
& the video post there...

I had really pushed the dao Paul Champagne is sharpening in the video, rolling the edge in several places. The process of field sharpening that dao did leave it with a better edge geometry, so I can not complain...

[B.Ko]

Hi Laoshi,

So if we were to aim at a historically accurate blade, would we take the Huanuo or Zhengwu sword and have a lenticular (clamshell) shape polished on with the edge a wee bit more blunt than they are now? I'm assuming the current swords are a bit more sharper than required.

Also would a more civilian weapon like a jian have sharper edges than a dao which would more likely meet armor and such on the battlefield?

Ben

[Scott M. Rodell]

... if we... aim at a historically accurate blade.. have a lenticular... shape polished on with the edge a wee bit more blunt than they are now?

I would say yes, but I wouldn't rush to pay & have that done. For most shizhan practitioners, cutting caoren (grass men) made of a bamboo core wrapped in 1 or 2 rice straw mats, is a near prefect practice target & the edges these swords come, with cut this target without any problems. You will need to re-polish the edge to a clam shell curviture if you move on to tough test cutting. For example, if you want to experience what it is like to cut into leather armor over a caoren.

I'm assuming the current swords are a bit more sharper than required.

Sharper than required for cutting most targets, but I wouldn't say that is a bad thing. If these blades were just sharp enough, a practitioner would have to re-polish it sooner compared with how sharp they come.

... would a more civilian weapon like a jian have sharper edges than a dao which would more likely meet armor...?

Generally speaking, yes. One wouldn't want a very sharp edge for cutting into armor, the edge would roll & chip too easily in that case. A chip in the edge creates a weak spot where the blade could break, something one obviously wouldn't have wanted anytime, especially on the battlefield.