The Longest Jians

Discussion of Chinese historical swordsmanship from all styles.

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Colin
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The Longest Jians

Post by Colin » Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:21 pm

I see that a fairly well known Yang style taiji school here in the states advocates using a jian which, from the ground, reaches the sternum of its user.



At 6'4 then I'd need a 50 inch jian. (That would put an end to a few lampshades and vases).



I'm wondering, were those traditionally for men on horseback?

for training? a recent innovation perhaps?, or is the practice of using these pikes as jians not uncommon?



I imagine that going from one of those back to a 30 incher would make the latter seem very fast.

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Post by Cat » Wed Oct 19, 2005 5:13 pm

Are you sure they're not talking about a two-handed jian? 'Cause otherwise that seems a bit excessive. It might be usable... but I'd think you would have to make some serious changes in your style in order to make it work.



~Cat

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Re: The Longest Jians

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:39 am

Colin wrote:...a fairly well known Yang style taiji school here in the states advocates using a jian which, from the ground, reaches the sternum of its user...


This is a common myth...



Allow me relate a conversation between a student & myself at one Moscow sword seminar. One woman in the class who was very short, about 4 foot tall, approached me at the beginning of the seminar. She was using our standard GRTC jian that are between 30 & 31" (the longest antique jian I've encountered is 32", & that length is quite rare). She asked me, "Since I'm so short, shouldn't I have a shorter sword?" I replied, imagine you are in a duel with me with real swords. That means one of us is likely to die. Do you want to use a sword that is 4 or 5" shorter than mine or one about the same length?" Not surprisingly, she answered, "I'll keep this sword."



However, this does not mean that is one is very tall, that one could use a sword longer than 32" (keep in mind that the average jian was about 29" long). One's arm & legs might be a few inches longer, but one's ligaments are still about the same thickness & strength as everyone else's. Using a longer sword will only mean the torque will make it too difficult to control at real speed & power & one will hurt/strain one's ligaments.



Please also see: Myths about Chinese swordsmanship at:

http://www.sevenstarstrading.com/articles/myths

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Re: The Longest Jians

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:49 am

Colin wrote:... were those traditionally for men on horseback?

for training? a recent innovation perhaps?...


Jian were not used by mounted troops for over a 1000 years for one simple reason, a thrust from horse back will get your arm ripped off. Horse & man weigh over a ton, when you are moving, that is a great deal of momentum. If, in this situation, one were to thrust into either a station target or into another cavalryman, with a straight sword, it would become struck there & as one's horse continued forward the sword would be moving in the other direction & the arm which is bound to the sword by the tassel, will be quite literally ripped off.

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Re: The Longest Jians

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Tue Nov 01, 2005 8:47 am

Colin wrote:...I'd need a 50 inch jian...


I've handle around 3000 antique Chinese swords, by memory, 4 of those have 31-32" long blades. One happened to come in recently with a 31" (79 cm.) blade, with its handle, it is a total of 39" (99 cm.) in length. A blade of this length is difficult to control at speed.

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