Staying alive in a spar

Discussion of Chinese historical swordsmanship from all styles.

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Linda Heenan
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Staying alive in a spar

Post by Linda Heenan » Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:59 am

Here's a question on swordsmanship that I hope attracts some answers from experience. I'm presently working through the Applications DVD and doing the exercises on it with a swordsman I know who is also working from the DVD. Of course, we don't just stop with the applications, but then try to work out ways to counter or to take it further. Sometimes this degenerates into a bout of mixed sword styles, but yeah...



Anyway, I have fair warning that next week we are going back to work on one of my favourites - Section 1 App 3. It involves a complete turn, coming down in Duo and then stretching into Ci below the ribs. The guy I'm partnering with to work on the applications has decided it will be very easy to make an attack while my back is turned. At slow speed, of course, this would be possible. I'm wondering though - if the attack is done at full speed, and assuming I manage to hold the centreline and keep the duifang retreating and off balance, would there still be a way to attack while the back is turned?



Also, if you were doing this against a more experienced swordsman (he's very much more experienced), would there be some ways to take him by surprise? If he departs from the sequence as demonstrated on the DVD, to slip out of the first Pi, rather than deflecting, and come down with one of his own, for example, what would you do. It's easy to become committed to a sequence like this so both people know what is coming next. I'd like to be versatile enough to change intent anywhere along the way and come in with a surprise. Ideas, please.



Linda

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Post by Linda Heenan » Sun Apr 10, 2005 5:27 am

Uh oh, too late guys, I'm dead! Not really, but since no one else has come up with an answer to this one, Paul thought of something really interesting that we thought was worth sharing. Obviously the demonstrations on the Applications DVD are only a small selection of the possibilities available from the Form. Today, we worked on something that would use the same movements but in an entirely different way, and the duifang would not be able to strike while your back was turned.



Thrust to draw the duifang's response, come from his deflection into Pi to the hand, move from his deflection into the longer energy Pi - all that is the same as the demonstration on the DVD. Here's where it changes. This ties in nicely with Cat's question about transitions into unarmed combat, on another thread. As you begin to turn, grip the duifang's elbow and push it out of the way. Roll around the duifang, keeping full body contact as you do. This will bring you around his back to the opposite side, where the Duo is brought down on his head. I suppose the Ci at the end of it would still be useful if he somehow escaped, or even as a finishing thrust as he falls.



Anyway, I'm going to email Paul and ask him to write his description of this sequence, so I'll come back and add his comments when they come. By the way, Paul Wagner is a European swordsman and teaches at Stoccata School in Sydney when he is not writing books or travelling to take seminars. As far as I know, there is no one else in Australia who practises YJMTJ jian, so finding an experienced swordsman of another style was a way to overcome the lack of training partners.



Edit: After posting the one below, I want to correct something in this. In the paragraph above I said "As you begin to turn, grip the duifang's elbow and push it out of the way. Roll around the duifang, keeping full body contact as you do."



Let's change that. It is the duifang who sees the opportunity to step in and grip your elbow. This is where the spin becomes necessary to escape and retake the advantage.



Linda
Last edited by Linda Heenan on Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Posted on behalf of Paul Wagner

Post by Linda Heenan » Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:18 pm

Well, here is the explanation in different language:


OK I'll try. Basically the sequence seemed to be about the rolling of the sword to the left into a hanging parry, then riposting over the top (with blow or thrust, doesn't matter) to be parried in the like manner. You thrust, I parry to the left point down and return a thrust or cut over the top; you likewise parry this with a hanging parry and attack again, etc, etc. This is an really common pattern in lots of single-handed sword systems; in the English systems it's got a special name, the "Prime Parade".



The thing about it is, being a hanging parry, you can't cut under it, therefore it is common to close in to your opponent when doing it, and it provides a good chance for grappling. In particular, as soon as you roll your hand to the left to parry point down, you expose your right elbow to a simple elbow push. So, for example, you thrust, I parry with a "Prime Parade" and return; you roll into a Prime Parade, but I have closed in and try and push your elbow; to escape, you use the energy of my elbow push to roll around me with the spinny turny thing (trying hard to "stick" to me, as when your're that close I can't meaningfully hit you), and can then hit me on the back of the head with the two-handed blow.



Paul


Ah, thanks for that, Paul. I see I had the wrong person gripping the elbow in my post, until I edited it. Anyway, everyone, it works very well. For those who are unfamiliar with this terminology, a "hanging parry" is a deflection with the sword tip pointing towards the ground.



Linda

josh stout
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Post by josh stout » Tue Jul 12, 2005 10:33 am

This may be a bit odd for the tai-chi people out there, but I was trained in Shaolin five animal style, and I have a slightly different understanding of the sword. I was taught that knives and swords share part of the essence of their movement with the snake style. In snake style, the arms are like snakes. Grabbing an elbow in snake style is like grabbing a snake in the middle. It is sure to get you bitten.

Josh
hidup itu silat, silat itu hidup

-Suhu

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