Name of Wooden Swords

Discussion of Chinese historical swordsmanship from all styles.

Moderator: Scott M. Rodell

User avatar
jonpalombi
Rank: Yang Chenfu
Rank: Yang Chenfu
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: Stowe, Vermont

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by jonpalombi » Wed Aug 18, 2010 12:44 pm

gchan wrote:Hi boys,

I propose we take a very, very Chinese (and might I say Daoist) approach to this debate. Call it what you want. Wooden sword, waster, mujian / dao. whatever. Everybody has different feelings on it and their choices in terminology will reflect it. We'll still understand whatever you're referring to.

To clear things up: There is absolutely no historical, cultural implication in the word "mu jian". There is no loss in translation when translated as wooden jian.

As for "jian". There are indeed some cultural implications that are left out when we use "sword".

As for the usage of "dao". Interesting that was brought up. I actually don't use "dao" by itself...ever. In Chinese, it has too much "kitchen knife" connotations. I prefer to use "sabre". In Chinese "pei dao" is the appropriate word for the one-handed sabre.
Nihao gchan,

Thanks for your input. I appreciate your contribution to this thread and I am certain Aidan does too. Would it be inappropriate, given that it is not exactly an authentic or historically documented term, to refer to our contemporary wooden fighting jians as "mujian"? I also feel that it is a valueless description, to simply refer to the jian as a "sword". Few swords have so many levels of meaning, in the light of symbolism, national identity and implication, as the jian does. Just using the word "sword", is far too vague, as is the word "dao" for the single-handed Chinese saber (although, they are easier for beginning students to comprehend). Sifu Rodell also uses the term "peidao" for Chinese sabers and I follow his lead. Do you know of a Mandarin Chinese equivalent to the word "gambeson" or the appropriate words for cloth-armor jacket? Thanks in advance! :)

Zai jian, Jon
Last edited by jonpalombi on Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A wise person aspires to learn the practice of swordsmanship. A lucky person finds a worthy Teacher. A fool cannot tell the difference.

User avatar
jonpalombi
Rank: Yang Chenfu
Rank: Yang Chenfu
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: Stowe, Vermont

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by jonpalombi » Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:05 pm

taiwandeutscher wrote:Yes, it is just plain mujian.

As a long term resident in Taiwan, I still find my teachers using highly specialized termini technici in teaching IMA, so specialized that some terms are even not to be found in any common dictionary.

Concerning uniforms, I must agree: The silkies are just ridiculous, for training unpractical and not very historic for performances, either.

We prefer high tech sweat absorbing T-shirts and light cotton gongfu pants, for the tropical summer heat, with a very small embleme on the left front side, nothing fancy.

But yes, westerners can be more Chinese than the Chinese themselves, the opposite also true for my Chinese language students of my European mother tongue. with Chinese being more European than the Europeans, funny, isn't it?
Hi taiwandeutscher,

Your vantage-point and perspective is most intriguing! I suspected that there was a whole loooooong list of specialized terminology, that we Westerners are rarely ever privy to (even if we could write them or pronounce them correctly), let alone native Chinese peoples. Are these intentionally hidden or are they just over-looked by most students of the art? This makes me extremely curious. That being said, I should put more time into expanding my taijiquan practice, before expanding my grasp of antiquated Mandarin wording. :wink:

Like any other art or science, CMA terminologies can be very, very subtle and intricate? Also subject to interpretation, I would imagine. Adding translation would only further the maze of possible meanings or definitions! Heady stuff... 8)

Thanks for your kindness and contribution.

Arrivederci, Jon
Last edited by jonpalombi on Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:12 pm, edited 3 times in total.
A wise person aspires to learn the practice of swordsmanship. A lucky person finds a worthy Teacher. A fool cannot tell the difference.

gchan
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 11:31 pm

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by gchan » Wed Aug 18, 2010 2:35 pm

Jon,

Nothing wrong with calling it "mujian". That is what it is called in Chinese. I just wanted to emphasize that there is nothing lost in translation, no deeper meaning when the "mu" is converted to "wooden". 500 years ago it was probably called a wooden sword (mujian) and now it is still called a wooden sword (mujian). It's very authentic, just a common, everyday term like "wooden spoon". That's probably why it was never recorded. Grand Historian Sima Qian would no doubt be dumbfounded at the fuss we are kicking up about a simple term.

As others pointed out, I personally like to use "jian" rather than "sword". Though, in Chinese, the jian as we know it is actually called a "zhongguojian" or Chinese sword when thrown into the mix with other cultures' swords. German sword would be "deguojian". So calling it the "Chinese sword" would actually be more "correct". Of course, when we know we are already talking about Chinese swords, it is called "jian".

It just comes down to whether you want to use the Chinese terminology. If you do, props to you; go ahead and use the Chinese terminology. If you don't, who cares?

As for "dao". That is a matter of context. As twdeutscher pointed out, his teachers all call it "dao". In context, it is a sabre. Out of context, it could be kitchen knife. Pei dao would be like saying "I will cut you with my infantry sabre". So as an easy to understand English equivalent just use "dao" when you mean sabre and "pei dao" when you would use something like "infantry sabre". Or you could actually call it an infantry/calvalry sabre! That's fine too.

Unfortunately, I have no idea what gambeson is in Chinese. Just as most Americans would have no clue what a gambeson is.
jonpalombi wrote:
Thanks for your input. I appreciate your contribution to this thread and I am certain Aidan does too. Would it be inappropriate, given that it is not exactly an authentic or historically documented term, to refer to our contemporary wooden fighting jians as "mujian"? I also feel that it is a valueless description, to simply refer to the jian as a "sword". Few swords have so many levels of meaning, in the light of symbolism, national identity and implication, as the jian does. Just using the word sword, is far too vague, as is the word "dao" for the single-handed Chinese saber (although, they are easier for beginning students to comprehend). Sifu Rodell also uses the term "peidao" for Chinese sabers and I follow his lead. Do you know of a Mandarin Chinese equivalent to the word "gambeson" or the appropriate words for cloth-armor jacket? Thanks in advance! :)

Zai jian, Jon

B.Ko
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:49 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by B.Ko » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:57 pm

My Chinese Tai Chi teacher would tell me to worry more about practicing than what to call something or ponder endlessly about some point of theory. (He's done so in the past when I asked about some theoretical point, after he saw improvement, he would then explain and I understood quickly). He doesn't really care about exact terminology and will use whatever metaphor is necessary to get a point across.

One of my Chinese Study Group members would scoff if you asked him about what to call a wooden sword, he would just look for openings while dressed in shorts, tshirt, rubber sandals with a cigar dangling in his mouth (no joke there).

Just my own personal observation, Chinese CMA practitioners, at least in my limited experience don't seem to put so much emphasis on what to call something or what to wear when practicing.

User avatar
J HepworthYoung
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
Posts: 276
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 12:19 pm
Location: Sacramento
Contact:

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by J HepworthYoung » Wed Aug 18, 2010 4:44 pm

Jian is specific as in all jians are swords but not all swords are jians
I appreciate that the term is loaded with information about what form of sword is involved.

Mu is easier to say than wooden, so mujian is more mellifluous.

I am not opposed to the term, it is good and specific.

I find it hard to appreciate the codification of borrowed terminology into a formal and ritualized vocabulary, which inevitably excludes those who would understand translated terms rapidly, and also causes a hierarchy of language that can facilitate a form of arrogance, which is directed towards those who are unfamiliar with the terms by those who employ the terms. It sets one term above another, despite both having the same meaning. This tends to be done by those who try to be more Chinese, than the Chinese ever were. It is not a CMA thing, I've seen it in every culture linked martial art and dance practice, and in almost every case it is inextricable from cultural elitism and an ironic form of by proxy nationalism. In taiji the truth is that cultural elitism is factually and historically accurate insofar as the behavior of the most famous of its prior keepers.


The human mind thinks the same way for all, the language is just like cloth the mind wears, the colors and threads may vary but the body beneath hardly varies. No language contains any term which cannot be expressed or conveyed into another language despite every language having unique expressions of concepts.
Few people ever learn the language they inherit, despite using it constantly. It is mundane to them, they believe that somehow it is missing something. This is no different than the taiji player who thinks the application is wrong because he is bad at it. The inability of a person to translate a concept or term in also the same failure, one of the translator and not the language itself.

Adding a requisite terminology only presents one more obstacle to transmission.
So mujian for me is a great casual term, but to formalize it seems obscene to me.

But knowledge is not something that words can convey, only opinion can be expressed in words, thus those who speak do not know.
And those who know, do not speak, or type as the case may be in this thread.

But then don't let my opinion be more than it is, just a human belief that is relative and subject to change.
Why stand by it or defend it if it may change? I'd rather share it than fight with words.

Sorry for contributing to complicating the objective of the thread

B.Ko
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:49 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by B.Ko » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:36 pm

One must also be mindful of Chinese slang and double plays on words. 'White Tiger' in its pure definition brings to mind the image of a noble and powerful beast.

Unfortunately, in the Cantonese dialect at least the term 'White Tiger' has a much more derogatory meaning at least in modern language.

As a Chinese immigrant, I don't have a full command of the language and I myself have fallen in the pitfall of using certain words that have quite a humorous slang meaning much to my parent's amusement.

B.Ko
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
Posts: 80
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 11:49 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by B.Ko » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:50 pm

And just to show how diverse and changing Chinese Culture and slang is, when I googled 'White Tiger' in Chinese slang, it was quite a different meaning to the slang I was familiar with!!!

But for the purpose of this discussion to the best of my knowledge, there is no wordplay slang on Muk Gim/Mu Jian.

User avatar
jonpalombi
Rank: Yang Chenfu
Rank: Yang Chenfu
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: Stowe, Vermont

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by jonpalombi » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:05 pm

B.Ko wrote:My Chinese Tai Chi teacher would tell me to worry more about practicing than what to call something or ponder endlessly about some point of theory. (He's done so in the past when I asked about some theoretical point, after he saw improvement, he would then explain and I understood quickly). He doesn't really care about exact terminology and will use whatever metaphor is necessary to get a point across.
Hi Ben,

Without a doubt, practice first... theorise later on, after the real work is accomplished. I am certain Aidan was not suggesting emphasizing a fixation of terminology, in preference of regular, intensive training. While still a young man, he has been a devoted martial artist for over twenty years. Myself, for over 40 years. What started out innocently enough, as a tribute to Graham's marvelous creations, has raised a few dragons from the deep waters! Funny, all this fuss. Really. So, all I can say about your comment is, a resounding "Ditto". That being said, it cannot hurt to use the words, "mujian" or "mudao", now can it? Pride, dismissive behavior and condescension... are far worst bed companions that "exoticism" or (God forbid) students with little internal experience.
One of my Chinese Study Group members would scoff if you asked him about what to call a wooden sword, he would just look for openings while dressed in shorts, t shirt, rubber sandals with a cigar dangling in his mouth (no joke there).
Most of us train in simple attire, as far as I know. I agree, that silk is a bit over-the-top and far too fancy for my tastes. Still, making derogatory comments about those who wear these "pajamas" is hardly the sign of an advanced comprehension of either, Taoism or CMA. I can count a quick dozen of Grandmasters who dress as such and are so far beyond any of us (in terms of internal development)... that is highly questionable what can motivate an individual to sooooo generalize others and miss the obvious reality, that sometimes... just sometimes, the greatest mastery of CMA and CSA, is clothed in said, "pajamas". :idea: It can be just as much an obsession to anti-exoticize Chinese terminology and traditional attire.
Just my own personal observation, Chinese CMA practitioners, at least in my limited experience don't seem to put so much emphasis on what to call something or what to wear when practicing.
In a parallel universe, of sorts, I have found that many do. Sure, this is absolutely no reflection of ones ability or depth of understanding. We're on the same page. It's just a personal preference or romantic flavoring, if you will (a taste of antiquity).
"To each, their own." 8)

BTW, how are liking the Yue Fei Dao? It has a majestic power about it and I kinda miss it's substantial presence. Quite a handful of steel and wood, eh? I hope you are enjoying such a fine old warrior, in your antique arms collection.

Be well and practice often, Jon
Last edited by jonpalombi on Thu Aug 19, 2010 6:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.
A wise person aspires to learn the practice of swordsmanship. A lucky person finds a worthy Teacher. A fool cannot tell the difference.

User avatar
jonpalombi
Rank: Yang Chenfu
Rank: Yang Chenfu
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: Stowe, Vermont

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by jonpalombi » Thu Aug 19, 2010 4:22 pm

B.Ko wrote:And just to show how diverse and changing Chinese Culture and slang is, when I googled 'White Tiger' in Chinese slang, it was quite a different meaning to the slang I was familiar with!!!

But for the purpose of this discussion to the best of my knowledge, there is no wordplay slang on Muk Gim/Mu Jian.
Hey Ben,

I googled White Tiger and got the straight Mandarin translation as, "Bai Laohu". Great white tiger? Or is it just "Bai hu"? I wonder what the slang term is? I'm almost afraid to ask! :shock: I did see quite a few references to "White Devils".

To quote the immortal Curly Howard of The Three Stooges, "I resemble that remark." :mrgreen:
A wise person aspires to learn the practice of swordsmanship. A lucky person finds a worthy Teacher. A fool cannot tell the difference.

User avatar
Linda Heenan
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
Posts: 617
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:58 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by Linda Heenan » Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:49 pm

Interesting discussion :D . I don't think it matters what we wear or what we call our swords. Being Aussie, the practicalities are that mujian is a whole syllable shorter than wooden jian. Aussies love to shorten words. For the purposes of my website - wooden sword is a high traffic attracting keyword and mujian doesn't register as a keyword at all. If you want people on your site, use the terms people are searching for and introduce new language slowly.

I do think this discussion brings up the whole issue of cultural change in martial arts. Chinese ways are totally bewildering to a Westerner. If we want people of our culture to learn, it's probably best to relate to their culture. Zhang Qinlin changed the way Michuan is passed on forever, when he told Wang Yen-nien to give it to everyone lest it be lost. The days of choosing one or two students in a lifetime have disappeared. These days, most students are taught in classes and pick up whatever they can. Someone made a comment about the student understanding the teacher or he chooses someone else to teach. That's so foreign to Western thinking. You just can't run classes that way. As a school teacher of 27 years experience, there has never been a time in my career when students were blamed for not learning. The onous is on the teacher to understand the students and teach to their best abilities. If they don't learn (and they were trying to), she would be considered a poor teacher, not the other way around. This is just one difference in Chinese thinking of a century ago and modern Western thinking.

We can't be Chinese. We shouldn't try to. I'm happy to use the words that best describe what we do and to learn to understand their meaning (remembering language constantly evolves). If Westerners try to be more Chinese than that, there will be huge misunderstandings and frustrations. If your teacher is Chinese, you will have to try to get your head around some really different ways. Mine isn't. He's as Western as me, but understands Chinese tradition through close Chinese relationships.

This thread has found a Chinese word for our wooden swords. That's good. I like it. Will I use it? Sometimes - depends who I'm talking to. We tried to get Aussies to wear uniforms. Hah! Even if they have them, they don't wear them much. It's too juvenile. Aussies wear uniforms to school as kids. National sports teams wear them but we see it as too pretentious to imitate that. We tried to get Aussies to call the teacher Laoshi. But a bunch of my small child students even call their school teachers by their first names and might not even know their surnames. They are doing pretty well learning to say Laoshi but it doesn't hold any more respect than calling a teacher by his first name. When you take something from one culture into another, it's more effective to embrace the new culture than try to force foreign ways on new people. So let's take the best of the old but remember we are not living in ancient China and the art will die if we do not embrace the modern world. This does not compromise skill. One on one is always best, but in our situation, people learn better if they actually know the language and understand the ways they are learning in.
Contributions welcome at the Chinese Swords Guide - now with RSS http://www.chinese-swords-guide.com

taiwandeutscher
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
Posts: 83
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:26 am
Location: Gaoxiong, Taiwan, R.o.C.

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by taiwandeutscher » Fri Aug 20, 2010 1:23 am

[quote="jonpalombi"][quote="B.Ko"]And just to show how diverse and changing Chinese Culture and slang is, when I googled 'White Tiger' in Chinese slang, it was quite a different meaning to the slang I was familiar with!!!

But for the purpose of this discussion to the best of my knowledge, there is no wordplay slang on Muk Gim/Mu Jian.[/quote]

[b]Hey Ben,[/b]

I googled White Tiger and got the straight Mandarin translation as, "Bai Laohu". Great white tiger? Or is it just "Bai hu"? I wonder what the slang term is? I'm almost afraid to ask! :shock: I did see quite a few references to [b]"White Devils"[/b].

To quote the immortal Curly Howard of The Three Stooges, [b]"I resemble that remark." [/b] :mrgreen:[/quote]

I have no idea about the slang meaning of white tiger, but as a sinologist with expertice in Chinese philosophy, I encountered this term often in connection with the purple dragon as baihu qinglong 白虎青龍. They stand for the Yin and Yang components of the golden elexier in the daoist school of the Inner Elexier, Neidan 內丹.

It's a beautful term, and I call my little roof top practice place baihu qinglong guan, all for myself, lol.
hongdaozi

User avatar
jonpalombi
Rank: Yang Chenfu
Rank: Yang Chenfu
Posts: 44
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:08 pm
Location: Stowe, Vermont

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by jonpalombi » Fri Aug 20, 2010 7:34 am

taiwandeutscher wrote:I have no idea about the slang meaning of white tiger, but as a sinologist with expertice in Chinese philosophy, I encountered this term often in connection with the purple dragon as baihu qinglong 白虎青龍. They stand for the Yin and Yang components of the golden elexier in the daoist school of the Inner Elexier, Neidan 內丹.

It's a beautful term, and I call my little roof top practice place baihu qinglong guan, all for myself, lol.
Thank you, Sir.

"Baihu qinglong" is a lovely sounding phrase. Now you've got me going about the Mandarin Chinese wording for purple dragon! :wink: Not in lieu of regular martial arts practice, rather, as an intellectual and artistic supplementation to the daily training. As has been so succinctly stated in this thread, the exoticism and fixation on the external props and mythic symbology of these powerful cultural words and images, cannot be a substitute for the thousands of hours of daily training, required to gradually attune oneself to the internal nature of the CMA. In my own personal sphere of consciousness, these images, conceptualizations and Chinese words... inspire and motivate me to deepen my practice and further reach beyond my limitations, as a student. Not as a departure from routine, daily training but as a psychological boost to it's fullness or perhaps, a beautiful tapestry, woven about the core-foundation of all the hard work and continued diligence?

Since 1974, I have been drawing and painting dragons and tigers, as incarnations of the principle of Yin-Yang. Now I am really psyched!!! Next, I am going to paint a purple dragon, fluidly coiling about the ferocious and dynamic form of a white tiger (entwined as one). Somehow I've got to work jian and peidao into the mix! 8) Just give me a few weeks and I will upload the image, if any of my fellow warrior/scholars are interested in viewing the finished work. It's actually been some time, since I last broke out the watercolors and this is a wonderful chance to celebrate these potent Chinese symbols, which are gifted to us by our Chinese fore-fathers. After my taijiquan practice is completed, of course.

Zai jian, Jon
A wise person aspires to learn the practice of swordsmanship. A lucky person finds a worthy Teacher. A fool cannot tell the difference.

User avatar
Linda Heenan
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
Posts: 617
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:58 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by Linda Heenan » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:29 pm

We'd love to see that, Jon.
Contributions welcome at the Chinese Swords Guide - now with RSS http://www.chinese-swords-guide.com

Aidan O'Brien
Rank: Yang Chenfu
Rank: Yang Chenfu
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:04 am
Contact:

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by Aidan O'Brien » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:29 am

Good day all,

Unfortunately I had my account disabled automatically because I changed my e-mail address to my new one. It has certainly given me time to crystallise my thoughts.

Firstly, I must say that I initially started this thread to find out an appropriate term in Mandarin (or Cantonese, but the rest of our terms are Mandarin anyway) to do honour to Graham's wonderful workmanship. I feel that this thread took a decidedly negative turn.

And while this came down to the exotification of Taiji, what must be remembered, is that English is very much a borrowing language. If another language uses something that makes it easier to say, or clarifies something better than any previously existing term, then it is incorporated into the language. It's how Shakespeare did it from Latin, it's what the French nobility did with the language when William the Conquerer crossed the channel and it's what happens regularly where there are two or more languages thrown into a melting pot. In the case of Chinese Martial Arts, it just happens to be two languages from very different origins. The same way all us native English speakers have appropriated the word Qi (amongst others) for our use in training. This is the natural course of the language evolving. That it why English is considered to be a living language and Latin is most certainly dead, even though there are people who are still capable of speaking it.

So the reason why we name the swords of cultures from a non-English, or that weren't shared with the English at least, in their native tongue is because there were fundamental differences to them that require appropriation. Hence the generic Chinese Sword is a Jian/Dao. With further descriptors (In Chinese too.)

Secondly, with the way English is used as a language, "Wooden Jian" and "Wooden Sword" are very different in meaning to the various terms that have been developed or borrowed from the Japanese amongst others. Just as the $10 Wooden Jian you get at your average supplies store and the beautiful artwork created by Graham are two totally different entities. Hence why I was seeking something to differentiate them in English.

I shall break them down into generic pieces:
$10 JLO (Jian Like Object)
Same Shape as Original*
Same dimensions as Original
Same Planes as Original
Different Weight to Original
Different Handling Characteristics to Original
Unable to be used in sparring or in any form of hard contact.

Graham's Work
Same Shape as Original
Same Dimensions as Original
Different Planes to Original
Same Weight as Original
Same Handling Characteristics as Original.
Able to be used in sparring and potentially hard contact (This has been proven through destructive testing and my own attempts to knock in a Hickory mujian.)

*Original being a correctly proportioned functional Jian.

When listed like this, you can quite easily see the dramatic difference between the two of them. And the sole difference between Grahams and an Original apart from being made of wood? That's a requirement for safety in training, which I'm sure none of us will object to.

The way English is used, especially with a word like 'Sword' is that it is Majestic, it is capable and effective; in this case it's also a weapon. When applying a descriptor to the word that fundamentally changes the properties of it, like Wooden, you lessen the impact of the latter word. Weakening its properties (In this case. I'm sure a Carbon Nanotube Jian would be quite something to see and if weighted right would be quite devastating.). Hence why I wanted to give an accurate description of it in another language without applying a weakening word to it.

To summarise that, the way English is frequently used, a Wooden Jian is: A Jian made out of Wood, created at the expense of the properties of Steel. The same way a Bronze Jian is a Jian made out of Bronze at the expense of steel. A Mujian is: A Jian that happens to be made out of wood that is entirely functional in the training environment.

While that might not be how it is used in Chinese, as I stated earlier, English is a borrowing language, it also fits the words it borrows into the context of the overall whole. It may lessen, or it may enhance the meaning of the individual borrowing. In this case, I would contend that it is the latter. I also started this thread for the correct terms, so that I wouldn't be having any obvious play on words as was raised with White Tiger. (Incidentally, Urban Dictionary has quite a few interesting definitions as well.)

Since we're going into linguistics...

And and because the below quote caused such offence.
J HepworthYoung wrote:The silly pajamas that people often wear to do taiji is a good example.
You mean these ones? http://bit.ly/bDyGet

Or perhaps these: http://bit.ly/dyVtex

Aidan O'Brien
Rank: Yang Chenfu
Rank: Yang Chenfu
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:04 am
Contact:

Re: Name of Wooden Swords

Post by Aidan O'Brien » Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:54 am

jonpalombi wrote:Since 1974, I have been drawing and painting dragons and tigers, as incarnations of the principle of Yin-Yang. Now I am really psyched!!! Next, I am going to paint a purple dragon, fluidly coiling about the ferocious and dynamic form of a white tiger (entwined as one). Somehow I've got to work jian and peidao into the mix! 8) Just give me a few weeks and I will upload the image, if any of my fellow warrior/scholars are interested in viewing the finished work. It's actually been some time, since I last broke out the watercolors and this is a wonderful chance to celebrate these potent Chinese symbols, which are gifted to us by our Chinese fore-fathers. After my taijiquan practice is completed, of course.
Now this, I look forward to.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests