push?

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Tashi James
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push?

Post by Tashi James » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:40 pm

I was wondering about the push where the energy on the duifung is seems to be "dumped" on to the bodies structure {"thats how it feels when Laoshi does it anyway!"}



In practice {from one end of the room to the other, on the duifung}; It was suggested that it was a kind of splashing jin, done in a whip like fashion.



I'm not sure how to phrase this question and realise it seems rather ambiguous. Am assuming it will come naturally as my body mechanics and fangsong improve; However was wondering if there is a specific way to train this on a static object, such as a padded part of wall or tree?



I hope everyone is doing well..
Last edited by Tashi James on Thu Nov 02, 2006 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"There is nothing that does not become easier through familiarity" (Santideva).

"We become what we do repeatedly. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit" (Aristotle).

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push

Post by Tashi James » Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:29 pm

okay Sheilaroo explained that one way of doing this is to keep the elbows "glued" to my sided. q; do we sink the weight into the front foot in a similar fashion to some of the tuishou exercises; moving the verticality in unison?
"There is nothing that does not become easier through familiarity" (Santideva).

"We become what we do repeatedly. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit" (Aristotle).

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Post by Linda Heenan » Mon Oct 30, 2006 1:40 am

I also explained the "spaghetti arms" exercise. Both of those exercises help develop the body movement so that the energy comes up through the body in the correct way, rather than just pushing the duifang with the hands and arms.



But hey... I'd like to hear some more from more experienced people too.



Linda

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Re: push

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:24 am

Tashi James wrote:... Sheilaroo explained... keep the elbows "glued" to my sided... we sink the weight into the front foot... ?


Granny 'Roo is explaining important details of body mechanics that are important regardless of what method or technique one is applying. Dumping the jin (internal power) inside one's duifang is a matter of where one focuses the power, where the end point of the release is. This can be done when raising or when sinking. You might feel this "dump" more strongly when receiveing a downward push during fixed step tuishou because of the postion of your body.



In the beginning, it will be easier for a student to develop long energy pushes aimed thru the duifang's body, moving him or her away, than shorter energy that "dumps" inside the body. In the long run, one should develop all types & lengths of energy & think of them as different tools for different jobs.

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Post by iglazer » Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:42 am

Though the following exercise isn't directly used for training push, it can help you get the right feeling. (This may be what Linda told you.)



Bring your wrists up to your shoulders. Let your elbows hang down. (Palms are facing the floor.) Take all the structure you can out of the arms. Step with the left foot and left your right hand spring forward, letting your body from the left foot all the way through the spine send the hand. Repeat with the other foot/hand pair.



The idea is to traing in the whip-like springy feeling for fajing.



One of the strange taiji things about getting a good springy push is that the more you try to make you push strong the more you'll be working against yourself. A good push comes from doing less, less muscle, less struggling, less forcing it to come.



As for training with a fixed object, we've got two things at GRTC DC that we can work with. One is Chuck. Chuck is a water-filled punching dummy. He gives and rolls with the push so you get the feel of pushing against a real person. The other thing we have is a thick piece of plywood bolted to a sturdy base. We usually use this to practice press, but you can gently work with it for push. It gives slightly but will quickly show you is you are forcin' your pushes.

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Post by Linda Heenan » Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:50 pm

I learnt the exercises from Roland and they made a big difference to my practice. The spaghetti arms one was the key to a much better way of doing the form and..... I do rather like sending Tashi flying into trees in the park :D It's revenge for him getting the press mechanics functioning when I'm not even close most of the time.



Ian's exercise above is new, and something we can use. Thank you. It sounds like we will need some training equipment before long, too.



Also, that little statement by Laoshi about focussing the point of power release, may be the key to opening up a whole new level. Thanks for that. :D



And.... since Laoshi just publically gave me the honoured title of Grandmother, I now consider it my right to boss everyone around, make most of the decisions, and expect respect from everyone :lol: Oh wait ... I was already doing that ....

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Re:

Post by Tashi James » Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:18 pm

lol...Granny roo, hehehe



Thankyou so much Laoshi and Iglazer, for taking the time to answer this.



Thx Linda, know you're very busy too..



Kind Regards
Last edited by Tashi James on Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
"There is nothing that does not become easier through familiarity" (Santideva).

"We become what we do repeatedly. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit" (Aristotle).

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Post by Linda Heenan » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:20 am

Thx gran, know you're very busy too..


Not at all :wink: In between practising my delicious Indian cooking with peas on the side in time for January, and plastering a certain fellow student in both sword and tuishou, I'll have plenty of time to practise focussing intent and learning to dump it inside a practise partner. Not mentioning any practise partner in particular ... but possibly one who is unlikely to make it to grandfather owing to an early demise caused by inappropriate manners :lol:



Now, a question on the focussing and release .... Are we talking about a release of qi here, or is this still just body mechanics?

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re

Post by Tashi James » Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:39 am

now now, thats not nice :roll:
"There is nothing that does not become easier through familiarity" (Santideva).

"We become what we do repeatedly. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit" (Aristotle).

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Post by iglazer » Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:44 am

Now, a question on the focussing and release .... Are we talking about a release of qi here, or is this still just body mechanics?


One leads to the other. Or more accurately, not getting one will prevent the other.



You've got to have body mechanics and structure in place before you can really focus on releasing qi.

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qi

Post by Tashi James » Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:13 pm

no qi, {in time}



only working on the body mecahnics of the fajin.

However just thinking; would there be a small amount of localised qi in the area that arises in terms of bringing the intention to the point of contact? What of bringing the intention to the centreline as opposed to point of contact?
"There is nothing that does not become easier through familiarity" (Santideva).

"We become what we do repeatedly. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit" (Aristotle).

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Re: qi

Post by Roland Tepp » Wed Nov 01, 2006 6:37 am

Tashi James wrote:However just thinking; would there be a small amount of localised qi in the area that arises in terms of bringing the intention to the point of contact? What of bringing the intention to the centreline as opposed to point of contact?


There is always some qi involved whether you know it or not. The trick is not to overdo by trying too much. The moment You are starting to think of power (either qi or li) of your push, is the moment you inhibit yourself. In fact - it is the best not to think of the push as pushing at all...



This is actually mentally and physically the most difficult part of taijiquan, as our bodies have learned to equate the physical work used to move something with the power (e.g. more work == more power) of that move and our minds have pretty hard time letting go of that equation.



I've found that the best possible results are achieved if you take the notion of "push like you were doing a form" as a literary description of exactly what it is you need to do. That is - when pushing someone, imagine the duifang away. Just do the push as thou you were doing it in a form alone... Try to get the whole body moving in a unison and try to do it with a feeling of easy lightness of a cat (or a monkey) jumping from a tree branch to another...
Roland

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re

Post by Tashi James » Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:00 am

So this is an aspect of fangsong?
"There is nothing that does not become easier through familiarity" (Santideva).

"We become what we do repeatedly. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit" (Aristotle).

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Re: re

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:36 am

Tashi James wrote:... aspect of fangsong?


Fangsong is essential to being able to fajin. Essentially the looser one is, the more springy one's body & thus the more jin one can develop or has the potential for.

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Post by Scott M. Rodell » Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:43 am

iglazer wrote:
... body mechanics and structure in place before you can really focus on releasing qi.


Few people reach a level where they can "release" qi into the duifang's body at the moment of the impact of a strike. Master Wang Yennien spoke of his teacher (Zhang Qinling) being able to do this, but he never mentioned whether he could himself or not. However, regardless of whether reaches this high level or not, circulating qi thru the 8 mai in concert with one's movements, changes the body in ways that make it softer & more tenacious, & thus easier to fajin. In time, as one's qi level increases & flows more freely, this flow will add power to one's fajin.

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