A question of blade tangs and dating

Sword typology and Edge Weapons forms of the Chinese Empire and related cultures with an emphasis on their relationship to Swordsmanship.

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A question of blade tangs and dating

Post by Freebooter » Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:30 pm

Another question that has been in the back of my mind for sometime now is the swords tang and the dating of swords based on its construction.

What features of the swords tang leads one to date a sword?

I have available to me dozens of old Dadao, Dao and Jian in various conditions and I note a vast difference in styles of their tang and sizes of their tang.

Some are broad, some are narrow, some are long, some are short, some are pireced for rivets, some are not, some protrude from the centre of the blade, some protrude from or close to the spine of the blade, some protrude from or close to the cutting edge of the blade.

How does one catagorise or date a piece from all these variables?

Gav
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Philip Tom
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Re: A question of blade tangs and dating

Post by Philip Tom » Tue Sep 01, 2009 4:16 pm

There are general benchmarks and "rules of thumb" to go by but no one factor that will pin down a date of manufacture to, say, a quarter-century. Some factors to consider:

1. Patina (old corrosion and oxidation) on the tang. An older blade tends to have more and deeper rusting on the tang. When brand new, the tangs were covered by a bluish oxydation (commonly called mill scale) which is a byproduct of heating in a forge and hammering to shape. Over time, rust forms, eating away at the millscale and replacing it. The amount of time that rusting takes to advance can vary with extremes in climate. Things rust very slowly in the highlands of Tibet, whereas corrosion advances much faster in the humid coastal areas of Guangzhou and Vietnam. I've seen blades dating to ca. 1900 (via provenance, blade shape, workmanship) in which the scale is still visible in places, with fairly superficial rust elsewhere. Going further on in time, rust deepens to form pits, and it becomes more deep-set: under the superficial reddish brown powdery rust, there develops a darker, hard "skin" or patina underneath. Over centuries this patina progresses to darker browns, eventually becoming near black. A 17th cent. blade should have this process fairly well advanced. In addition, the originally crisp corners of the tang will have become a bit rounded due to material which sloughs off during the corrosion process.

It can be difficult to learn to judge patina by looking at images, it helps to actually handle as many blades as possible. Knowing how blades have changed in style and workmanship over the past several hundred years also helps. This is because sometimes, tangs have been replaced -- not a terribly common occurence with Chinese blades as with Indian or Near Eastern, but this can "throw off" an estimate of age if this is not recognized. Replaced tangs can be detected by things such as a scarf-weld somewhere on the tang but generally closer to the blade, and a marked difference in the depth of corrosion in the respective areas.

2. Proportions and placement. In general, earlier (up to mid-Qing) tangs tend to be wider. This rule of thumb applies to both jian and dao (but not dadao, see below). The tangs have considerable width right at the "shoulders" of the blade -- typically about 3/4 or more the blade width. They remain "meaty" well back through the grip, often including a lanyard hole towards the rear, from which point they taper into a "tail" that is inserted into the pommel. Late Qing blade tangs tend to be skinnier, they resemble "rat tails". At most, many of them are less than 1/2 blade width. This represents a manufacturing shortcut, and blades with very narrow tangs relative to their width are not as strong at the forte (this design defect is also common on late European military swords, which were made more for show than actual use).

On jian, the tang by necessity is located central to the axis of the blade. On sabers (peidao) up through the mid-Qing, this tends to be the case. Skinny rat tail tangs located closer to the spine are a hallmark of some late Qing blades.

In the case of dadao, with their ring shaped pommels, the tang and pommel are forged in one piece or the ring assembly may be riveted to the tang. Tangs are almost always the same width as the grip itself, which typically constructed of two wooden "cheeks" riveted to each side and shaped to an oval or round cross-section then wrapped with cord. On some poorer examples, the tang itself is merely wrapped with cord for several courses down its length, to "build" up the the desired size.

3. Relative thickness of tang to forte of blade: On most swords, these dimensions were equal when the blades were new. When blade thickness beginning at the guard is much less than the tang behind it, this is one indication that the blade has been polished many times during its life. It's also the reason that many guards on swords are fairly loose -- the less metal is in the blade, the clearance between it and the aperture in the guard grows.

A note on lanyard holes in tangs: traditionally, they were hot-punched during manufacture. Drilled holes are found on some very late (early Republic) blades, and almost always on the new stuff coming out of China today. In the case of the later, the lack of any real patina on the tang is also a give-away clue, as is the often smooth finish from being ground to shape on a machine.
Phil

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Re: A question of blade tangs and dating

Post by Freebooter » Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:20 am

Thank you very much for your learned input Philip, as always it is greatly appreciated.

There is good amounts to digest here.

Regards

Gavin
What comes will come, what goes will go and what stays will stay.
www.swordsantiqueweapons.com

josh stout
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Re: A question of blade tangs and dating

Post by josh stout » Fri Sep 18, 2009 10:54 am

Those are excellent tips on tang construction, but I was wondering about the term "hot punched". I have a chang jian blade (mid to late 19th c.) where a hole started to be made in the normal spot near the bottom of the tang. The hole was not punched or drilled, but chiseled. During this process a small crack started, and a new hole was chiseled at the other end of the tang closer to the forte. The first hole was never finished so the chisel marks are quite clear and unmistakable.

Another observation is that handles riveted to tangs are typical of village work. Some say that rivet patterns might also be indicative of minority pieces, but so far I have not been able to verify this and have seen many different patterns on village pieces that seem purely Chinese.
Josh
hidup itu silat, silat itu hidup

-Suhu

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