A question of fullers

[Freebooter]

Good people, I have a question about fullering on blades.

Has anyone encountered any blades that only have fullering to one side?
I ask as I have seen only one. It was mounted on what appeared to be a very old Dadao with archaic sript on the non fullered side.
To me, this seems unusal and it may indicate a region, age or something else?
I am interested in hearing what anyone may have to say on the subject.

Regards

Gav

[Philip Tom]

There is considerable variety in fullering design on Chinese blades. I've commented before on some interesting designs influenced by India and Middle Eastern cultures. As to your question on asymmetrical fullering (each side of the blade being different), I have seen examples in which this is the case. They are not common, usually you'd find a pair of narrow channels on one side and a single wide one on the other. Or, the grooves are the same width and number, but on one side there's a marked difference in length, the balance being taken up by other decor such as drilled "dimples" or the like. What you mention, a blade with only one side channeled, is something I've never seen before (it was occasionally done in Japan), but considering the wide range of designs used by the Chinese, I wouldn't be surprised if another example pops up elsewhere.

What we have to be careful about, in terms of blade ornamentation and format, is that many of the new/repro/fake (your choice of adjective here) swords on the market seem to take considerable liberties with the script -- they deviate considerably from the general population of verified antiques. For instance, you see some really imaginative effects like grooves that deliberately go all the way through the blade, forming slots (an obvious source of structural weakness) that when examined closely still show the marks of a milling machine. But let's leave that discussion for another thread.

[Freebooter]

Thank you for your input Philip, the variety you note is interesting.

Being a gambling man and of the attitude nothing ventured nothing gained I will try to secure this piece I speak of. This piece does have two small fullers across the top of one side and was noted as having nil on the other so it might be a subtle single one??
The question of fakes is always in the back of my mind when undertaking these ventures but so far so good and as long a the price is risk adjusted I shouldn't be too disappointed if it is newer than it appears. I'll provide images in the weeks to come if successful.

With regards to the points of weakness on pieces that have pierced fullers, my mind turns to small holes often seen on the back of raised yelmans. Until I bought a Yanyuedao that has this hole,

smallDSC01269.JPG (156.82KiB)Viewed 16228 times

I always thought they belonged to modern flashy martial arts weapons but as I look deeper there seem to be a number of old Dao and Dadao with these pierceings.
I have seen one Dadao that has cracked at this piercing point (being a place of weakness as you note Philip) and I do wonder if anyone can point to historical references about Dao and Dadao having these and why?
The Yanyuedao with a similar hole on the back edge, I can gather from historical images available, once had a tassle/bell like object hanging from it.


Thank you again.

Gav

[Philip Tom]

Hi, Gav
The yanyuedao in the pic looks to be a magnificent example. From the way it's appointed (the ornate treatment of the ferrule and "guard", and the seven stars inlays on the blade) I'd say that this example might be more ceremonial than utilitarian even though the blade may be fairly stout. If the blade is drilled clean through for the star inlays, that would certainly be a source of weakness. Keep in mind also the tremendous stresses exerted on polearm heads due to the leverage afforded by the shaft.

Often you see an actual perforation at or near the end of the dorsal prong or hook, on the falchion-shaped dadao blades, there is sometimes a hole right at the dorsal "peak". On yanyuedao, this aperture seems to be intended for a tassel, as you mentioned (although this feature may have been removable, being attached for parade only). On dadao, you see the hole most often on Vietnamese examples and from what I understand, it was for a metal hook attached to a shoulder sling or strap (the other end looped through the ring pommel, so that the weapon could be slung over the shoulder like a carbine while on the march. This would make a scabbard unnecessary.

[Freebooter]

Hi Philip,

Thank you for the explanation on the Dadao piercings, something so simple and practical. Noting this hole as mainly a Vietnamese attribute but not absloute certainly makes me look a little further into some research I have done as it does draw a couple of plausable paralells for me with other pieces in my collections.

With regards to the Yanyuedao, I feel I have been spoilt in having it, I have passed dozens of other genuine antique polearms but never seen a more complete example on the market, it has set the benchmark so in turn it is the only one I own.
I agree in the use of this polearm as predominately ceremonial or a parade standard, but practicality becomes apparent with usage. The magnitude of the blade gives it a very regal/judical feel when standing to attention with it.
It does exhibit a fine distal taper with a good cutting edge, a forged blade and perfect balance. It weighs in at almost exactly 15kgs and I think upon reading Peter's notes on the Qing military exams and having a little play (with no experience) it moves very well when wound up
I didn't articulate it too well originally either but yes this Yanyuedao does have the piercing on the dorsal fin not towards the tip. The seven star inlay is fully pierced with raised brass circles with an iron pin centre, see the image below.

Thanks again

Gav

[Freebooter]

A false alarm,

With regards to the asymmetrical fullering I asked about, the two fullers on one side, upon a very close inspection, turned out to have two very rubbed fullers the other side and they were not very noticable....the search continues for the unusual forms I seek.

I have however this sabre blade with triple fullers and circle/dots. Very well cut fullers and despite not having a hilt grip or guard present, it is very nice in the hand when swung.
I am thinking early to mid 20th century, though it may be earlier and I thought it might also be Korean due to the sunburst tang spacer still present?
I have also seen the exact circle arrangment on a nice Indian wootz tulwar and several other munition grade tulwars and a Syrian Shamshir.
It has several tang piercings too, one of which still retains a peened rivet of some sort and the remains of a star burst spacer, something I thought quite unusual.
Especially unusual to me is the position of a hole close to where a guard would lay, if it was a Turkish Kilij, I might expect to see one here as I have noted on many brass guarded Kilij are attached in this fashion.

zblade.JPG (75.51KiB)Viewed 16151 times

zbladec.JPG (85.8KiB)Viewed 16151 times

Can anyone pin point this style of blade?

Thanks

Gav

PS. excuse my big foot in the photo....

[josh stout]

Why are you dating it as 20th c.? At first glace I would say late 18th to early 19th c..
Josh

[Freebooter]

Hi Josh,

I suggested this dating because to be honest I have no idea and would rather be critical of my own pieces that stretching the unknown. I also suggest this as it was part of a collection I bought, being amongst Nationalist and Communist Dadao that was put together 20-35 years ago as direct imports from China by a US gent on the ground there, although reproductions may not have been as rife then, I still thought there would have been restrictions on antiques leaving the country back then, hence why the dadao are of the period I mentioned and not earlier.

I did at first thought think as an approx date mid 19th century, but the blade didn't have a substantial feel to it as many ealier blades have either, this may be due to it not having a hilt and thus missing the true feel of it.

It may be as old as you suggest Josh and slipped under the radar...I'd be interested to hear what others have to day too.


Gav

[josh stout]

The widened tip can be seen on mid 19th c. things but I do not think it is diagnostic. The fangshi style pommel is more useful in that they are rarely seen after the 18th c. The exceptions are of course the 20th c. things made in imitation. I would look at the workmanship to tell the difference. What does the inserted edge look like? Is the pommel well made? How old does the tang look? From what I can see I do not think there is any "mill scale" that one would associate with later things.
Josh

[Freebooter]

Thanks for your input Josh.

The image doesn't show it very well but the pommel is yuanshi which was another lead indicator for me dating it as I did, though it could well be 19th century.
As you note there is no mill scale on the tang at all and the piece as a whole shows very good age and light pitting towards the tip as though it was once stored in a scabbard for a long time.
Looking at the window I partially cleaned on the forte, the inserted edge is clear and I am sure a clean would do it wonders, removing the brown rust will be a lengthy process though, especially the fullers.
It has little but nice flex when forced and springs back fast and perfectly.
The numerous holes in the tang still holds my interest.

Gav

[Peter Dekker]

Hi,

That is certainly an odd one. The pommel is of a type first seen on sabers in the high-Qing of the eighteenth-century, which then disappeared in favor of round ball-pommels, and then re-appeared again in the late nineteenth-century on flaring blades like niuweidao.

The saber presented here is an odd form that differs somewhat from the classic niuweidao but is probably of about the same period. The hole at the place where the guard should be is strange as well. Its fullers seem pretty well-cut. It is hard to classify it, perhaps it was a one-off commissioned piece or a rare form of saber used in a certain region.

-Peter