Iron Chinese Helmet

Sword typology and Edge Weapons forms of the Chinese Empire and related cultures with an emphasis on their relationship to Swordsmanship.

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Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Linda Heenan » Thu Jul 16, 2009 1:02 am

What else do you know about it? PM me if there is more.
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Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Scott M. Rodell » Thu Jul 16, 2009 7:44 am

Linda Heenan wrote:... does it detract from the value to restore a helmet...?


Not if it is done properly by a professional...
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Dragon Iconography

Postby Linda Heenan » Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:26 pm

During my research on Qing armour, I read something interesting about the dragon icon. Apparently you can tell which rank the armour was made for by the position and shape of the dragons. This will be interesting. My sister is presently drawing the designs from the helmet with the help of one of her computer programs.

I read that only the emporer was allowed to wear the image of the five clawed dragon face on. Princes of the first rank were allowed to wear that symbol only on their chests. The dragons on their shoulders had to be in profile. Second rank princes had to have all their dragons in profile. Third rank princes had four clawed face on dragons. Does anyone know how it went after that? My helmet has dragons. They are in profile, and I'm just finding out how many claws they have. It would be interesting if they have three or less because that takes the iconology to the lower levels as well.
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Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Peter Dekker » Wed Aug 12, 2009 6:08 am

We should be wary ascribing too much to these dragons when depicted on anything else than these official costumes and armors. For example:

The rules on face / profile and how many claws a dragon had only applied to imperial dragons. Archaic dragons have been quite popular throughout the Qing and do not go by these rules. Often they have less claws though, and their nose sometimes comes with a horn that is turned upward, a bit like an elephant's trunk. Such "horned" dragons are referred to as kui dragons and are depicted on many kinds of objects, imperial and non-imperial, such as: arrow shafts, carpets, sword fittings, belt hooks, jade ornaments, etc. These would not say much about rank, they are just ornamental.

Proper imperial dragons were also used in military emblems such as banner and green standard army flags, and possibly on other items to depict the army's allegiance.

Rules about official dress also loosened up in two cases:
1. Further away from the capital meant further away from strict central control, so dragons saw more lavish use in the border regions of China because there was no such strict control. Tibetan art for example shows many dragons that strictly speaking would be only for the emperor, but apparently the Qing didn't have as much control there to forbid their use or perhaps it had to do with imperial favor bestowed upon the Dalai Lama and his men, allowing the use of these symbols in this region.

2. The further the Qing progressed, the less control the imperial clan had over its subjects. As a consequence, people started to "experiment" with these symbols and started to change their emblems to make them appear higher in rank. This was a serious crime during most of the Qing, but more and more people got away with it from the late 19th century onward.

It is nevertheless very interesting to work out the design on this helmet and see what exactly is depicted. Also be sure to look for any other symbols that may give away something of its age and origins.

-Peter
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Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Linda Heenan » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:10 pm

That's good, Peter. I've made a link to this in my article.

Yes, Rachel is working on all the designs.
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Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Peter Dekker » Wed Aug 12, 2009 4:50 pm

Great, I hope you'll share the results with us here on the forum.

Most of these helmets are plain, in fact I think this is the first I see with engravings. I am very interested in seeing what exactly is depicted. Some designs endured for a very long time in China, yet others may give away some hints on its production date.

-Peter
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restoring helmet

Postby Philip Tom » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:39 pm

Hi, Linda
Sorry I've been away from the forum a bit, am catching up on things. Congratulations on the helmet, it is a very nice find! What is the gauge of the iron plate forming the shell?

From the shape of the baogai (the dome shaped top piece that the plumeholder fits into) this is probably a pattern of helmet dating to the latter 17th through the 18th cent. Laoshi answered most of the questions as re: parade vs field-service helmets, exterior finishes, etc.

A couple of other things. You mentioned the seeming large size of the thing -- this is a characteristic of many oriental helmets and it's probably due to the manner of fitting it to the head. Instead of a ring-shaped padded liner with crosswebbing like modern army helmets, a thick quilted cap was used, the top of the cap had a topknot that fitted inside the baogai. (as a matter of comparison, the so-called turban helmets of the Mamluks and early Ottomans were positively huge because they were made to be worn over turbans -- a concept not far removed from the Qing use of a padded cap/liner).

As regards the original finish on the outside, it is a matter of conjecture since many earlier Qing iron helms have come down to us in either corroded or over-cleaned condition. I've seen them polished mirror bright (probably by a museum curator in Europe at a time when it was the practice to burnish antique armor to car-bumper brightness), painted, and just plain rusted. An exceptional iron helmet in the Polish Army Museum, Warsaw, has its original finish, it's blued (like a firearm) with a dragon executed on the surface in silver overlay.

Now, a couple things were mentioned concerning restoration of your example. First, do not have the engraved designs "refreshed" by an engraver. The deeply pitted surrounding surface will contrast with the enhanced design and this will destroy the historical credibility of the piece. We see instances of antique Chinese blades with new engraving added by "restorers" in Beijing or elsewhere to goose up their value. Re-cut the engraving on your helmet and people are going to question it immediately. Please don't do it.

Sad that the surface has been sandblasted. I have methods of putting a patina back on the surface, going with repeated cycles of application and gentle polishing to bring back a proper antique appearance. Let me know if you'd like to have this done. It does not involve any etching or grinding to the iron, so you will not be losing any more material.
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Iron helmet with engraved / gilt trim

Postby Philip Tom » Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:48 pm

Linda, Peter
True, Qing iron helmets with engraved decoration are not common, but you might want to compare with an early Qing example now in the Metropolitan Museum of Art (acc # 1997.18, purchase, Bashford Dean Memorial Collection). The visor, browplate, and baogai are gilt and engraved with Buddhist motifs, the helmet body is finished bright. It's publish in the Met's exhibition catalog, WARRIORS OF THE HIMALAYAS: REDISCOVERING THE ARMS AND ARMOR OF TIBET, (2006), cat. no. 19.
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Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Linda Heenan » Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:00 pm

Thanks for all that great information. I haven't done anything to it other than take photos and I'm really looking forward to the Rachel's drawing of them.

As for the gauge, I don't know what it is - only that it is a lot thinner than the reproduction helmets Laoshi and I have. I don't know what to do to work out the gauge.

Linda, Peter
True, Qing iron helmets with engraved decoration are not common, but you might want to compare with an early Qing example now in the Metropolitan Museum of Art (acc # 1997.18, purchase, Bashford Dean Memorial Collection). The visor, browplate, and baogai are gilt and engraved with Buddhist motifs, the helmet body is finished bright. It's publish in the Met's exhibition catalog, WARRIORS OF THE HIMALAYAS: REDISCOVERING THE ARMS AND ARMOR OF TIBET, (2006), cat. no. 19.


Here it is, for the interest of those reading this thread:

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/dtba/ho_1997.18.htm
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Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Peter Dekker » Fri Aug 21, 2009 4:31 am

Ah how could I have forgotten that one! It is one of my favorite helmets when it comes to geometry, I love its overall shape and the little stylized cloud details that hold the rivets.

-Peter
Knowing is not enough, we must apply.
Willing is not enough, we must do.


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