Iron Chinese Helmet

Sword typology and Edge Weapons forms of the Chinese Empire and related cultures with an emphasis on their relationship to Swordsmanship.

Moderators: Scott M. Rodell, Philip Tom, Peter Dekker

Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Linda Heenan » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:50 pm

My husband just bought me a Chinese helmet. It's on its way to me this week but I already have pictures. The helmet is made of iron. I'd like to know how to conserve and care for the helmet. Is it any different from caring for steel? Here are some pictures.

Image

Image

Image

Image
Contributions welcome at the Chinese Swords Guide - now with RSS http://www.chinese-swords-guide.com
User avatar
Linda Heenan
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
 
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:58 am
Location: Australia

Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Linda Heenan » Sun Jun 28, 2009 6:54 pm

My helmet arrived today. I'm very happy with it. One of the interesting things is that one of the "rivets" once used for attaching the dingjia flaps, is still present.

The plume holder seems to be peened on, although fairly loosely. It has a small hole at the inner helmet end where a horse hair plume could easily have been kept in place with a simple knot.

As well as the rivet holes for attaching the flaps, there are some smaller holes that may have been used for attaching a strap system to hold it on. I'm not sure there is any other evidence for such a device, but it's one explanation for what I see here. Also, the addition of dingjia flaps would pull the helmet backwards so I wouldn't be surprised, given that there is no grille, to discover there had been some sort of strap system to hold it on. The evidence we have from period art pieces seems to negate that but maybe the owner of this helmet had his adjusted for stability.

I can't see any evidence of a suspension system or inner padding but there must have been something. The circumference is as large as the reproduction piece Adam Mackay made for Laoshi and would need something to hold it in place on the head.

And .... I still need help with how to take care of it. We are only touching it with cloth or paper towels covering our hands to prevent rust. Should I put renaissance wax on it, or leave it alone completely?
Contributions welcome at the Chinese Swords Guide - now with RSS http://www.chinese-swords-guide.com
User avatar
Linda Heenan
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
 
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:58 am
Location: Australia

Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Linda Heenan » Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:59 am

Additional questions
How common was it for these helmets to be laquered black? In my research I've come across a few like that?

This particular one is unadorned, making me think it was for someone unimportant. Is that a fairly good assumption? I've seen pictures of some really beautiful helmets in the same shape. Also it has a short plume holder. I remember Philip Tom telling me important people had taller plumes.

How likely is it that this is a parade helmet? Did everyone have a fighting version and a parade version or were there only a few of them handed out for special occasions? Why were they called parade helmets? I mean, did the army regularly show off to the rest of the population, or what? Did common soldiers wear a lower version on the battlefield, or did they only look after the heads of more important people?

My research tells me these were only around in the Qing dynasty and were part of the armour worn by the Banner Army. Is that correct? I saw something with a similar height from the Yuan but they were more rounded.

There seems to be no face protection on any of the Qing helmets. Does anyone know why they might protect everything except the face?

The head circumference of this one is quite big. I would need a lot of padding to fit it correctly for wearing. In all the pictures of soldiers wearing them, they seem to fit snugly with the flaps tied under the chin and the collar piece wrapped over the top of the flaps. Are there any clues yet as to how they were padded and fitted inside?

I'm writing a web page on the hlemet over the next few days. It will have whatever information I've worked out and acknowledgement for anyone who answers some of these questions, as well as a link back to this forum.
Contributions welcome at the Chinese Swords Guide - now with RSS http://www.chinese-swords-guide.com
User avatar
Linda Heenan
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
 
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:58 am
Location: Australia

Carved design

Postby Linda Heenan » Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:30 pm

I realise I'm getting pretty excited about this and it's obvious that people who have the expertise to answer my questions are too busy right now. Just the same, I leave them here for the future. While taking some close up photos of the helmet for my website, today, I discovered it has been carved with a design. This is barely visible to the naked eye except in bright sunlight and surrounds the base of the plume holder. The pattern covers the entire dome of the plume holder base, not just the sides of it.

If anyone has information on such carved designs on helmets, please share it. I'd like to know if it is just a common carved design. Is it specific to one time period? Was it likely to have been inlaid.

Image

Image

Image
Contributions welcome at the Chinese Swords Guide - now with RSS http://www.chinese-swords-guide.com
User avatar
Linda Heenan
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
 
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:58 am
Location: Australia

Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Scott M. Rodell » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:12 am

Congratulations, that a nice looking piece...

Linda Heenan wrote:... there are some smaller holes that may have been used for attaching a strap system to hold it on. ... there had been some sort of strap system to hold it on. The evidence we have from period art pieces seems to negate that but maybe the owner of this helmet had his adjusted for stability.


Can you describe where those holes are & how it seems the strap system might have been rigged?

Linda Heenan wrote:I can't see any evidence of a suspension system or inner padding but there must have been something. The circumference is as large as the reproduction piece Adam Mackay made for Laoshi and would need something to hold it in place on the head.


The pads that I've seen (they are extremely rare) were separate "hats", but these were for parade helmets, so they might have been different for battlefield helmets.

Linda Heenan wrote:And .... Should I put renaissance wax on it, or leave it alone completely?


Renaissance wax should be fine...
Scott M. Rodell
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:50 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Scott M. Rodell » Sun Jul 12, 2009 10:17 am

Linda Heenan wrote:...How common was it for these helmets to be laquered black?


The Qing helmets that were lacquered black were parade helmets made of leather.


Linda Heenan wrote:This particular one is unadorned, making me think it was for someone unimportant. Is that a fairly good assumption? I've seen pictures of some really beautiful helmets in the same shape. Also it has a short plume holder. I remember Philip Tom telling me important people had taller plumes.

Linda Heenan wrote:How likely is it that this is a parade helmet?


Not likely, it looks to be a mid-level officers helmet.

Linda Heenan wrote:... only around in the Qing dynasty and were part of the armour worn by the Banner Army. Is that correct? I saw something with a similar height from the Yuan but they were more rounded.


This shape helmet only dates from the Qing period.

Linda Heenan wrote:There seems to be no face protection on any of the Qing helmets...


Correct, the during the Qing dynasty no face protection was employed.
Scott M. Rodell
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:50 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Linda Heenan » Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:25 am

Thank you Laoshi. I really appreciate your input into this.

While inspecting the helmet further this afternoon, I noticed that the decoration around the dome is also on the front strip of metal, that holds the visor, both inside and out. It's on the visor as well. I am going to attempt a pencil over paper rubbing of the designs to preserve them for future use. They seem to involve dragons which is very nice. My red gambeson has gold dragons all over it and I'd like to have an authentic motif from my helmet, to use for future reproduction armour, or on swords.

Can you describe where those holes are & how it seems the strap system might have been rigged?


There are 4 sets of holes on each side. The holes I mentioned are below the normal holes for attaching the flaps. They are smaller than the others. In some cases there is another small hole next to the flap rivet holes. Here is a picture of one near a hole that has the rivet still in place.

Image

I would use these holes to make a cradle of leather straps that held the helmet from 4 points on each side. It would leave room for the ear in the middle, and would meet at the point of the jaw on each side. A single strap would then pass under the chin, holding the helmet on the head firmly enough so that even a hard sword strike would not dislodge it. We did something of this nature with my Adam Mackay helmet. To experiment, I passed threads through the holes of this Qing helmet and held the helmet on my head to see if they were correctly positioned for such a cradle. They are. It would look something like this:

Image

That picture was drawn by marking the position of the holes onto a piece of paper, through the actual holes, with a pen.

However .... those small holes continue around the inside of the helmet under the front strip of metal. So they may have had a different purpose altogether. They may have been used to attach the inner padding. Whatever the real purpose, if someone wanted to completely restore this helmet with dingjia flaps, inner padding and straps as well, all the holes necessary for these finishing parts are already in place on the helmet.
Contributions welcome at the Chinese Swords Guide - now with RSS http://www.chinese-swords-guide.com
User avatar
Linda Heenan
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
 
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:58 am
Location: Australia

Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Nik » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:39 am

Are there any close ups of historical helmets inner construction ? The cradle you mentioned should have a complex standard construction, there should some net of leatherstraps with a cotton padding so the helmet does not actually touch the skull. Otherwise it would defy the meaning of the helm since the shock would travel right through. The small holes should be for strongly connecting a circle of strong leather or possibly wood holding the cradle, since they distribute the force exerted on the helmet to the whole cradle.
Nik
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
 
Posts: 251
Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:06 am

Iron Chinese Helmet - re-patination

Postby Scott M. Rodell » Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:55 am

Was thinking about the color of your helmet in regards to your question about how to care for it. OIt appears from the photos that it might have been clean with acid. If so, you might want to artificially add a patina on it to give it some character. I've seen Philip Tom do this to pieces where one area has been over cleaned... just a thought...
Scott M. Rodell
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:50 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Linda Heenan » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:54 pm

I've seen Philip Tom do this to pieces where one area has been over cleaned... just a thought...


A good thought. I've still put nothing on it because I'm working with the designs. My sister is going to do a digital rubbing from the photos I'm taking, and extract them for me. When Phil comes back from his move, I'd like to have a chat with him about it.
Contributions welcome at the Chinese Swords Guide - now with RSS http://www.chinese-swords-guide.com
User avatar
Linda Heenan
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
 
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:58 am
Location: Australia

Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby josh stout » Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:52 pm

Congratulations Linda :D The helmet looks much better than the first pictures I saw. When Scott pointed out that it had been cleaned with acid, the color made more sense. When you are done with figuring out the cool dragon designs (definitely part of what I can see) I bet a good oiling (not WD 40) will darken it up a few shades.
Josh
hidup itu silat, silat itu hidup

-Suhu
josh stout
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
 
Posts: 335
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 10:17 am
Location: maplewood NJ

Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Linda Heenan » Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:29 pm

It's a lot darker here in reality than it looks in the pictures. It must be the flash. But yes, I see dragons too :) . When my sister finishes extracting them with her computer, I'll let you all know what's actually there.
Contributions welcome at the Chinese Swords Guide - now with RSS http://www.chinese-swords-guide.com
User avatar
Linda Heenan
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
 
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:58 am
Location: Australia

Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Scott M. Rodell » Wed Jul 15, 2009 1:23 pm

Linda Heenan wrote:... I see dragons too...


You know, a good restorer could possibly re-cut those designs a bit...
Scott M. Rodell
Site Admin
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1183
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 4:50 pm
Location: Virginia

Re: Iron Chinese Helmet

Postby Linda Heenan » Wed Jul 15, 2009 4:44 pm

So... does it detract from the value to restore a helmet like this?
Contributions welcome at the Chinese Swords Guide - now with RSS http://www.chinese-swords-guide.com
User avatar
Linda Heenan
Rank: Chang San feng
Rank: Chang San feng
 
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:58 am
Location: Australia

Re: Iron Chinese Helmet - re-patination

Postby Freebooter » Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:28 am

Scott M. Rodell wrote:Was thinking about the color of your helmet in regards to your question about how to care for it. OIt appears from the photos that it might have been clean with acid. If so, you might want to artificially add a patina on it to give it some character. I've seen Philip Tom do this to pieces where one area has been over cleaned... just a thought...


This piece had been sandblasted by the owner who had it before the Gent from whom it was purchased.

Gav
What comes will come, what goes will go and what stays will stay.
www.swordsantiqueweapons.com
Freebooter
Rank: Frequent Contributor
 
Posts: 27
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2008 7:30 pm
Location: Brisbane Australia

Next

Return to Chinese Historical Arms

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest