ID And Translation Help Needed

Robert · Post by **Robert** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 2:13 pm

This is a item that I've had for quite awhile and need help in identifying. The steel blade is of diamond shape and is 21-7/8" in length. The blade shows signs of lamination and an inserted edge. The tang is set into the grip with what I believe to be pitch or some other type of resin. At the hilt the blade is just over 1/4 " thick and 1-1/4" wide. Hilt is made of wood and is 5-5/8" in length, 1" thick and 1-1/2" wide. Unfortunately there is some damage to the carved end. Total length is 27-1/2". Scabbard is a dark wood with four large diamonds (1") and four small diamonds (1/4") carved into it. There is also a star about 1" across carved into it. There is some writing carved into the hilt that can be seen in one of the pictures. I have been told that it is not Indonesien but possibly Chinese. Any help in identifying this item and the writing would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Robert

john chiam · Post by **john chiam** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:46 pm

Robert, those are chinese letters but from the way the maker put together it seem to be a japanese name. hope this helps. J

Peter Dekker · Post by **Peter Dekker** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:15 pm

Hi,

The shape of the blade is unlike anything I've yet seen from China. The blade profile does remind of Tibetan shortswords, while the diamond cross-section is much like that common on jian. The handle looks a bit Indonesian indeed.

(For a such Tibetan shortsword, see: http://www.chineseswordsocietyuk.com/fo ... 52#post352)

I can't really make much of the inscription, while I do know most of the characters. The upper most character is an odd one, it doesn't exist as such in Chinese language. Perhaps it's an unskillful attempt to write characters such as zheng (to stop) or wang (prince, king).

The other letters probably appear to read from top to bottom right to left:

song jing ben, wang tai lin

It needs mention that I'm not entirely sure about lin, and also wang isn't a perfect representation of that character. The literal meanings might be:

Song: Pine, pine tree.
Jin: Well, mine, pit.
Ben: Root or stem of a plant, foundation, basis, origin. Book. Original. Current, present.
Wang: Prince, king.
Tai: Too.
Lin: Close neighbour.

It might well read: "The pine tree's roots originate too close to the present king."

As you can see, a literal translation doesn't make much sense but literary Chinese often doesn't for contemporary eyes. It might be a hint towards some political view, some slogan used by those unhappy about the present regime.

I don't exclude it to be a Japanese name either as I am not at all familiar with those formats. It would be an odd find on such a thoroughly non-Japanese looking piece.

-Peter

Scott M. Rodell · Post by **Scott M. Rodell** » Wed Nov 14, 2007 9:22 am

They look to be 2 Japnese names. The characters in the right are not a Chinese saying...

Robert · Post by **Robert** » Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:38 am

松井本正太郎
I have been told that they translate to "song jing ben zheng tai lang". Now, can anyone translate this?

Robert

john chiam · Post by **john chiam** » Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:29 am

you can either break it down to each letter, or by the way it was written which does not translate to anything in chinese meanings. it seem to make more sense as one/two Japanese names (not saying I know all the names in chinese but the combo seem more Japnese than Chinese) J.