Militia Jian

[Scott M. Rodell]

Tuanlian Jian
Militia Sword
28” Blade, 34” Overall
1 lb. 14.5 oz.

The blade inlaid with seven brass dots, representing the seven star constellation that points to the pole star, of sanmai construction with a wavely pattern welded body mounted in solid iron fittings & with a wood grip. Overall in very good condition.

Over the years I have encountered a number of jian similar to this piece. Mounted in what might be called rudimentary iron fittings, & always lacking a scabbard, yet with substantial well forged blades. Furhtermore, while the blades are of good qualty, they are never finely finished, & as in the case of this example, often show signs of having seen combat. Some of these jian appear to be quite old. Overall, they appear to be of provincal origin, constructed in a utilitarian fashion with combat in mind, quite unlike jian that tend to be assoicated with the literati. This combination of a good quality blade with simple yet very functional hilt, has lead me to believe that these jian were mounted locally for use by village militia. This would explain why one has yet to appear with an associated scabbard. In other words, they were not personal arms, meant to be carried on a regular basis, but were likely stored at a barracks & issued when needed. As a practitioner of Chinese Historical Swordsmanship, I find such jian quite interesting, as they likely represent the type that were most often used by the average man when forced to defend his home.

[josh stout]

I am fascinated with these "iron" jian. This one has the characteristic late Qing ram's horn guard, but many are done in a style reminiscent of Ming styles, which leads to some confusion and wishful thinking. As you say the blades can be quite well made even when the fittings are quite rustic. At 34 inches this would be a chang jian, but shorter ones are much more common. The short ones are quite substantial though, often weighing close to 2 lbs or more. I wonder if the Ming motifs often found on iron jian have to do with the re-emergence of jian as a weapon for battle, albeit wielded by peasant militias. The blades would tend to be shorter and heavier than the jian of the literati for functional reasons, but Ming fittings might point back to the previous period of battlefield jian usage. They might also reflect some anti-Qing sentiments.

Collectors tend to avoid iron jian I think because they are not so pretty, but the real art of the smith is in the blade so this seems unfortunate to me. Even more unfortunate is that most martial artists seem not to know such weapons exist. As you say, these were the jian that it is likely were used by the majority of martial artists who did not belong to the upper classes. The shorter heavier jian in particular seem like they would work well with traditional forms that start with the sword hidden behind the back.
Josh

[Kyro R. Lantsberger]

Thanks for posting this, Scott. Im very interested in weaponry of this type. I feel kind of foolish for some of the questions I've asked in light of these sorts of things. I often wondered if Jian existed anywhere except amongst the literati, with Dao as the weapon of the commoner or the militia. The existence of pieces such as this one, and its tie to being connected to an armoury really changes my thinking about how these arms were distributed through society.

[Scott M. Rodell]

... feel kind of foolish for some of the questions I've asked in light of these sorts of things.

You really shouldn't. There is so much incorrect information passed around as gospel & correct info out of context that everyone new to this field is bound to "silly" errors.

... wondered if Jian existed anywhere except amongst the literati, with Dao as the weapon of the commoner or the militia.

Keep in mind that there was the "regulation" military & there were the adhoc militia & ten there were rebel groups. The country side rebels & militias could choose what they wanted.

... its tie to being connected to an armoury really changes my thinking about how these arms were distributed through society.

There were many local militia (tuan lian), but the idea that this particular style of jian, with simple iron fittings, were kept in local armories, is my theory. We do know that after rebellions, such as in the case of the White Lotus Rebellion, were put down the government acted to disband militia. I would expect the arms were accounted for & stored either at the local constable's office or perhaps with the landed gentry who paid for them.

[Scott M. Rodell]

One of the great up sides of being a dealer of antique arms is being able to practice with many more swords than I could even afford to own...

Over the past few days, I was able to practice a good many basic cuts with this militia jian. It is exactly the type of jian I would choose if I had to fight multiple attackers, especially in a more confined area like the alleys & roadways of a Chinese city. The point of balance is further forward than most are use to, at 8 1/2" up from the guard. But combine that POB with this jian's weight & you have a sword that would quite easily rend limbs, just the kind of power one would want in battle, as opposed to a civilian dueling situation, where one would want to strike one attracker & be able to move onto the next without concern that the first would be able to continue. Yet while this jian is weighted & balanced to deliver powerful cuts, it is also just short enough at 28" that it doesn't pull the arm, taking one off balance or stressing the joints.

Looking at the blade geometery, I found it to have an accelerating curvature that would support heavy cutting.

[josh stout]

What do you mean by accelerating curvature? Are you saying the edge widens quickly so the cutting edge is well supported for chopping as apposed to thin for slicing?
Josh

[Philip Tom]

These are a hallmark of Qing provincial arms. Sturdy and much easier for local smiths to make than the classic dragon-mouth or "ace of spades" guards on the higher class weapons, which required the services of a specialized brass- or bronze-foundryman to manufacture.

Rams horn guards are most frequently encountered on the two-handed "big knives" (dadao), the type of weapon frequently seen with the "fengchi" or phoenix-wing, falchion-shaped blade, and the ring pommel on the end of the hilt. Most are of iron, though I have seen a few on Republic-era weapons cast of solid brass.

The rams horn is not a typical style of Ming jian guard. Although surviving jian mounts from the Ming are almost non-existent, there are enough representations in art showing a continuation of the Song twin quillons that curve towards the blade, or else the stylized open lotus flower (albeit in flattened form) that survived long after that on the Korean "gum".

[Philip Tom]

Looking at this provincial "militia" jian leads me to wonder what sort of training exerecise or drills were used to train the troops in the use of this style of jian. As Scott suggests, powerful cutting strokes were undoubtedly part of the repertoire. Would be wonderful to discover in an old militia training manual an explanation of the form so that interested students can learn it today!

[Scott M. Rodell]

... accelerating curvature? Are you saying the edge widens quickly so the cutting edge is well supported for chopping as apposed to thin for slicing?

Yes, the cross section is not shaped like a wedge with flat sides that tapers evenly to the edge, but is "bullet" shaped so that the blade quickly thickens right behind the edge. In every instance where I've inspected the cross section of a Chinese sword, I've found it to have this type of "bullet" shaped cross section.

If one thinks about edge geometry in an historical context, this is the type of edge one would want, over a thinner edge/blade that might slash (i.e. draw cut) more effecently. One wouldn't want an edge that works better than other in some instances, one would want an edge that cuts well overall & will stand up to the worse situtation without being damaged. This edge geometry is the accelerating curviture of a "bullet" shaped cross section.

Cross reference with the thread:
Edge Sharpness Vs. Application
viewtopic.php?t=327

[josh stout]

Thank you Scott for describing the cutting edge. I am now going to start looking at the geometry more closely to see if there are any relationships between various styles and geometries that would imply certain uses. Are the higher-class swords more designed for slicing, or are they all designed for chopping?

Phillip- I understand that the ram’s horn guards are quite different from the Ming styles. This makes me wonder if there are two major groups of iron jian. There are those heavy village made jian with 19thC style fittings and no scabbard and there are the village made iron jian with Ming style fittings that do sometimes come with a scabbard. These are still solid pieces made for use not show, but in the very few I have held, maybe they are not quite as heavy as the militia jian?

Here are two Ming style iron jian that I have posted before, but that seem appropriate to this discussion. Both came with scabbards. Both are shuang jian, but at least the first one is in a common northern style with fittings I have seen elsewhere in a duan jian also with a scabbard.

First one.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j65/p ... CE5899.jpg
There are holes in both pommels for a tassel.

Second one
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j65/p ... ion343.jpg

A close up of the pommel. The one not in the picture has a hole for a tassel.
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j65/p ... ion347.jpg


And here is what I think of as a militia duan jian with fittings that seem more typical of 19thC pieces. The pommel has some traces of brass over the iron, while the guard is all iron. (Maybe a replacement? but still old) The full length is 80cm,blade length 61.5cm thickness 9mm and the weight is around 1k. Like the one that Scott posted the balance is more toward the tip than one usually encounters. This one had no scabbard.

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j65/pekhopai/00.jpg

http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j65/pekhopai/01-1.jpg

Do you see the Ming style iron jian and the militia style duan jian as two distinct variants?
Josh

[Scott M. Rodell]

Thanks for posting the photos...

... going to start looking at the geometry more closely to see if there are any relationships between various styles and geometries that would imply certain uses...

Keep in mind that you can have different edge geometries on different areas of the same blade. If the thickness of the tip area thins, there won't be enough material there to have an accelerating edge geometry, in that case you'll find a simple continuous curve. Also don't forget any sword that saw action has been repolished, porbably several times. So the geometry could have be changed more than once.

... are two major groups of iron jian?... heavy village made jian with 19thC style fittings and no scabbard and there are the village made iron jian with Ming style fittings that do sometimes come with a scabbard...

I'd say there is one group, Militia Jian.

Two points to keep in mind: 1- jian have not been a regulation military weapon since at least the middle of the Ming period, so there aren't any government "standards" except those called for by function, & 2- If these short iron hilted jian are indeed militia jian, as I postulated above, we can be fairly certain that they were produced in a great variety of places, meaning there is certainly no set pattern or quality control to their manufacture even if there had been a government standard for the army.

[josh stout]

I'd say there is one group, Militia Jian....

Scott, I have noticed you have the interesting tendency to keep your categories large and inclusive. In biology there is always the tension between those who are known as lumpers and splitters. Lumpers put all roughly similar organisms into a single group while splitters see any morphological differences in individuals as evidence of separate species. I seem to have splitter tendencies while you seem to tend toward lumping. This is probably a matter of perspective. I have much less experience so I see each sword as a unique representative of a type, while you have seen enough swords to see more of a continuum.

In this case the division I see is one where some jian have more of an ethnographic look with motifs that seem to be associated with particular regions, while other jian have a more standardized look that one would associate with the Qing dynasty in general but not with any particular region or people. They are all linked by somewhat rough rural or village manufacture, which avoids the fancy brass fittings and tends toward heavier functional blades. While none of these weapons would be covered by government regulations, it seems that even irregular militias would use weapons that had a more uniform look than the more regionally influenced iron jian one sees. Clearly I am wildly speculating, but it seems that any organization even loosely affiliated with the Qing government would try and use jian with more of a Qing flavor and less of a Ming. Perhaps as you say they are all militia jian, and what we are seeing is differences in the nature of the militias. Some may have had a more local nationalist approach, defending a small region, while others may have had more of a governmental connection and have been overseen by an official with governmental connections. Alternatively, the Ming styles might have represented rebel groups. However, I have seen dao with inscriptions relating to a particular rebellion but I have never seen such inscriptions on a jian. So I am willing to go with the idea of lumping these all together as militia jian, but I still think I see at least two different basic kinds. What do you think?
Josh