Inscription on Qianlong era saber

[Peter Dekker]

On another forum there has been some discussion over the meaning of a "mysterious" inscription on a Qianlong era Imperial saber located in the Musee d' Armee in Paris.

See the following pics:

http://forums.swordforum.com/attachment ... 1172603115
It's the saber on the right. The middle one appears to be a princely saber of the 18th century, carried by qinwang and junwang, princes of the royal blood. It is one of the earliest examples of the round yuanshi style fittings I know.

http://forums.swordforum.com/attachment ... 1172603548
Detail of handle with Imperial yellow silk wrap, a color only allowed for those of the Imperial lineage, or close to them. The fittings appear of iron and damascened with golden archaic designs.

http://forums.swordforum.com/attachment ... 1172603285
The Manchu inlaid inscription.

Here's what I know: The first two words read Aisin Gioro or "Golden Clan", the Imperial lineage of all Qing emperors going back all the way from founder Nurhaci to the last emperor Puyi.

The last word was probably the name of the Asian Gioro in question, likely to be the person that had owned it. I'd be tempted to assume it's the Qianlong emperor's Manchu name, however the blade's craftsmanship does not seem to be of the same level and elaboration as other sabers known to have been his. Unlike his grandfather Kangxi, he seemed to have had quite a thing for lavish and elaborate decorations.

Aisin meaning "Golden" in Manchu, it is a nice touch that this word, and only this word, is inlaid in the blade in gold as well.

-Peter

[josh stout]

Thanks for the help on that one. What kind of script is Manchu in? I would have thought it would use borrowed Chinese characters. The lettering itself looks most like Arabic. Is it like Davnagari that uses Persian script for a Hindi related language, or is it an endemic creation?
Josh

[Peter Dekker]

In fact, the Manchu written language was formed not very long before the Qing conquest in order to unite a host of different Jurchen tribes that were united by Nurhaci. It's written form was largely based on the Mongol language, also part of a group of languages classified as Altaic languages. Other Altaic languages include Turkish on the most Western part, and Korean and Japanese on the most Eastern part.

The tribes had been highly fragmented, much like Mongol clans had usually been throughout history and like the Mongols would only be ocasionally united by a charismatic leader. Both creating a written language for all the tribes, plus a common myth of origin served as political instruments to unite them and keep them united in order to be able to start "The Great Enterprise" as Wakeman calls it, to found the Qing and take over Ming China. In fact, the common name "Manchu" didn't even exist prior to the early 17th century.

A funny detail is that Qing, meaning "pure, clear" in Chinese was meant to be closely associated with the word Ming, meaning "bright" in both meaning as phonetics as to make it easier for their new Chinese subjects to accept. But in Manchu, the name sounded much like "warrior". An excellent feat of cross cultural management that worked well on both sides.

The Manchu Eight Banner (later 24) organisation was largely a remnant of their earlier tribal organisations and served well in incorporating new tribes. Newly overtaken or surrendered clans were spread out over several different banners and thus assimilated in the whole, minimizing the chance of internal rebellion later on as would be the case if kept all in one clique. Especially loyal clans, however, were allowed to stay largely intact upon incorporation in the banners.

The more I learn about it, the more the Manchu conquest and expansion of China turns out to be a brilliantly executed endeavour performed by a group of exceptionally capable and well informed leaders. This, in spite of the fact that many were illitarate in Chinese and some even in their own language.

-Peter

[Philip Tom]

Peter is right, the Manchu writing system is derived from that of the Mongols, who adapted the script used by the Uygurs of Central Asia during the Middle Ages. (the Uygurs eventually dropped this style of writing in favor of the Arabic alphabet when they converted to Islam). Some linguists believe that the pre-Islamic Uygur writing system is based on that used by the Nestorian Christians who actively prosletyzed throughout inner Asia during the Tang and Song Dynasties, and that the Nestorians, who originated in Syria, used a language closely related to Aramaic which was the tongue that Jesus spoke. It's an amazing journey!

The symbols used in writing medieval Uygur, Mongolian, and Manchu don't seem to be derived or copied from those of neighboring cultures (for example, they are NOT simplified Chinese characters or a variant of Sanskrit). The script is alphabetic, and not syllabic as are the character symbols used in Korean han'gul and Japanese hiragana / katakana scripts. Letters have different shapes depending on whether they fall at the beginning, within, or at the end of a word (written Arabic and Hebrew share this trait although those languages are not related). The basic Manchu alphabet is augmented by special symbols used in transliterating some Chinese words.

Note that Mongols and Manchus write vertically, whereas the Uygurs (and the earlier Nestorians) oriented the letters in horizontal lines.

[josh stout]

I saw this recent article (http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract. ... 94DF404482) on the dying Manchu language. It is hard to imagine that such a powerful people and culture is down to 18 or less native speakers in one century.
Josh

[Peter Dekker]

Quite a tragic, isn't it? I've amazed myself over the quick diminishing of the culture as well...

Due to the wealth of old Manchu texts about all kinds of subjects (and not in the least bit about archery) I've been playing with the thought of trying to learn it. Unfortunately it won't fit in my current schedule, and might not for quite some time.

Luckily Mark C. Elliott can read it, and shares his research with us in his books. Too bad he's not as obsessed with the details of Qing weapons and their use as he is about the "Manchu Way" as a whole, and therefore only touches on the subject but doesn't go as deep as we would like him to go.

I could base quite a bit of the following article on his translations of old Manchu texts that still had the imperial yellow ribbons on them when he first saw them:

http://www.mandarinmansion.com/antique_ ... manchu.htm

-Peter

[Philip Tom]

I don't think that Manchu is going to die out any time in the near term, at least in academia. Its survival as a spoken vernacular is questionable but there has been a renewed interest by scholars in learing to master the written idiom, simply because there are so many surviving texts yet to be translated. This interest in the language did not exist a generation ago.

Notably, the growth in scholarly interest is especially strong among scholars outside of China. Elliott is one of a group which is likely to carry this interest on into the future. Whether the Manchu minority surviving in today's China takes up the banner and goes on to revive the language for everyday use (as Irish Gaelic has been resurrected with greater or lesser success in the 20th cent.) has yet to be seen.

The only Manchu I've met in California was a guy from Taiwan who worked out briefly at my gym, he was Han on one side of his family, knew nothing of Manchu language or history. When I mentioned the Banner system and Nurhaci, he reacted as though I had said something in Greek. With his sights on a career in Hollyweird, he wasn't the least bit interested.....

[Peter Dekker]

Unfortunately for me, it appears my Manchu is even less existant than I initially thought!

Mark Elliott was so kind to contact me about the saber in question and translated the inscription as follows:

jangku amba leng jeng
jangku in Manchu means, as you can perhaps guess, "sword," esp a large, long-handled sword

amba means "great" or "big"
leng jeng means nothing in Manchu; most likely it is the phonetic rendition of a Chinese term, "leng zheng," though I don't know what these characters might be

This is peculiar since it appears to be a comparatively small (but substantial) saber. Leng zheng does not ring a bell for me either. But even though my amateur translation appeared more logical, I'm afraid it's Elliott's we need to stick to.

-Peter