Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

How to restore antique arms & repair practice swords.

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bond_fan
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Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by bond_fan » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:24 pm

Anyone know if there is a way to attach the handle to a Huanuo jian that I bought to steal the fittings off of? Figured maybe I can use the handle on the jian even though there is no guard and pommel, do something to keep the handle from sliding around for use as a practice sword or sell the scabbard, blade and handle.

Nik
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Re: Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by Nik » Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:42 pm

There are industrial glues that would fit the handle to the blade that strong that you need to use a saw to get it off afterwards.

bond_fan
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Re: Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by bond_fan » Sat Jun 18, 2011 5:37 pm

Thanks Nik!

I forgot about epoxies and the such.

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Re: Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:52 am

Don't forget Huanuo blades are secured with a bolt at the end of the tang. If you use a double nut system, you should be able to secure the grip quite well. It's a good idea to place a washer between the nut & grip to prevent cracking the grip.

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Re: Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by bond_fan » Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:59 pm

The tang from a Huanuo mono steel jian showing how they welded on the end, so a screw-in cap can be used to hold the pommel on instead of peening the end.

Image

The end result after I took the fittings off to be used for my Rick Barrett meteor jian project. Now if I can find a buyer for the blade and painted green scabbard...

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Re: Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by Nik » Wed Aug 17, 2011 9:46 am

They are welded ??? :roll:

bond_fan
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Re: Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by bond_fan » Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:59 pm

Looks like that to me or soldered?

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Re: Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by Nik » Fri Aug 26, 2011 9:45 am

Yes it looks welded, but, who in all earnest welds a rat tail to fix the pommel ? The vibrations will break the connection after some time.

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Re: Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by bond_fan » Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:28 pm

Apparently Huanuo.

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Re: Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Thu Nov 10, 2011 10:07 am

bond_fan wrote:Anyone know if there is a way to attach the handle to a Huanuo jian... ? Figured maybe I can use the handle on the jian even though there is no guard and pommel, do something to keep the handle from sliding around for use as a practice sword or sell the scabbard, blade and handle.
I think you certainly want to use the same handle, why go to the trouble of carving a new one? But keep in mind, that the grip/handle is designed as part of an integral set of hilt fittings. I would be concerned that the handle might slip without the other fittings there to stabilize the entire hilt. I'm think it isn't wise to use the jian without a complete set of hilt fittings...

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Re: Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by bond_fan » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:29 pm

I was going to use the same handle.

BTW I talked to a couple of sword makers and they said if the screwed threaded end is welded to the tang then it will be very strong and not be an issue about coming apart. Think about it, they weld bridges, building structures and other things together all the time.

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Re: Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by Nik » Fri Nov 11, 2011 11:31 am

Of course you can weld a lot. However, you can also do a lot wrong with welding, and then the connection is NOT durable. Notoriously, chinese makers weld together car exhausts in a crude fashion, and then it holds up against the cars vibrations for like 5000 miles - and falls apart. Selling a welded rat-tail as ultra-durable connection to the blade is, mildly put, interesting.

A wallhanger has the advantage of not being put a lot under vibration. Someone who does CMA sword forms without fajin will create minimal vibration, if any. As soon as you do hitting practices or practice fajin, you will put a LOT of vibration on the connection of the blade to the tang, and then you will have durability issues depending on the exact material and style of welding used. This is very well known especially for car exhausts, where you need special constructions called dynamic vibration absorbers, to keep the welding seams from tearing.

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Re: Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Wed Jan 25, 2012 10:03 am

Nik wrote:Yes it looks welded, but, who in all earnest welds a rat tail to fix the pommel ? The vibrations will break the connection after some time.
I've seen more than a few tang of modern sword made in China & no way I would call Huanuo's a rat tail. And having torture tested the hell out of Huanuo swords, I can say for certain they will not break under any normal conditions, for they did not break under the abnormal conditions I put them thru.

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Re: Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by Nik » Thu Jan 26, 2012 1:26 pm

A rat tail is afaik an english term for the german "Gewindestange", which my current dictionary translates as "drop rod; threaded rod; studding". If that is a different thing, sorry.

However, I came along some constructions from czech make on medieval european swords, which held up for years. But in the end, the material gave way under the vibrations and just shore off. In that case after 8 years, so it's nothing to complain about, but, it happened. It doesn't happen overnight. So you have to know very well how long a weld seam holds up, and the user has to know when he better checks it if the seam is still intact. Car exhausts suffer a lot more under stronger vibrations without special measures, and there it happened then within months if the weld seams aren't 100%.

It's absolutely easy to use a different solution, which is what european sword and military saber manufacturing did for hundreds of years meanwhile.

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Re: Putting Together Huanuo Jian Without Fittings

Post by Scott M. Rodell » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:01 am

Nik wrote:A rat tail is afaik an english term for the german "Gewindestange", which my current dictionary translates as "drop rod; threaded rod; studding". If that is a different thing, sorry...
"Rat Tail," is sort of slang term for a skinny, weak tang here in the US...

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